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The Goose and Carrot Pub Thread

885 replies

roaringdragon · 30/08/2026 15:27

Everyone is welcome, and the thread disappears after 90 days.

Thank you for the last thread @lougle. I hope the doctor was helpful and DD2 isn’t feeling too rubbish this morning.

DS1 has used the last of his EOTAS hours today. There will be at least a few weeks before the EHCP is finalised and funding restarts. He will hopefully have his operation during that time, but it is still going to feel like a long time without that provision.

OP posts:
roaringdragon · 15/10/2026 22:26

@LathkillDale I’m not sure what you mean by ‘no’ and ‘we wouldn’t bother giving these a name’?

The term ‘on-costs’ isn’t a made up term. It is a term that is recognised when discussing those costs. It is in the dictionary. Looking specifically at PBs, they are mentioned on a number of LA websites/policies (despite many LAs wanting to overlook them when making an PB) and the LGO mentions them in some of their decisions too.

Training, both the actual delivery and professional time for undertaking it, is accounted for separately in DS1’s EHCP and the DPA. (And for DS2&3, but that’s not relevant to DS1).

There is no profit and loss.

I know you deleted it when editing but your comment of ‘it’s so obvious, it goes without saying’ is so not how LAs and DPs work.

OP posts:
Lougle · 15/10/2026 23:23

On-costs is typical terminology in education and health. It's the true cost of a hire. For an HLTA it adds roughly 20-25% over the gross salary.

LAs will always try to skim. They're used to parents being so grateful they are getting anything that they daren't raise the fact that they aren't getting enough.

I hope you get it sorted @roaringdragon. It's never-ending.

ETA a hyphen because without the hyphen we may as well all hang up our hats now.

roaringdragon · 15/10/2026 23:35

@Lougle your edit made me smile. Much needed as I have felt rubbish today, spent far too much time on MN as a result, and can’t sleep despite being exhausted.

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Lougle · 15/10/2026 23:54

I hope sleep finds you @roaringdragon . I'm similarly stuck. Too much to think about without solutions.

roaringdragon · 16/10/2026 00:09

@Lougle I’m sorry you can’t sleep either. It’s not easy when there isn’t an answer.

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PurringTiger · 16/10/2026 00:38

@roaringdragon go a little inward if you can. Make the decision to shut shop on anything but essentials for you and immediate family. You need to heal to power back up.

PurringTiger · 16/10/2026 00:42

I am having an early night due to posting mundane detail on assignments and getting responses that solved it. Pub at its best.

PurringTiger · 16/10/2026 00:51

@Violasilkie our lives remain far more unbelievable than I ever post. I believe you. I’ve started a side book of notes again, every negative and distressing thing I write about DD I write a thing I love about her in the side book. Form renewals just bring reality to focus when we are trying to live looking through a soft lens.

JumpersFluffy · 16/10/2026 06:49

Posting a bit of joy that made me smile yesterday. DD2 decided to learn the ukulele but not any tune oh no a K/Pop one. Found a you tuber and a hour later had several chords and two different strumming techniques plus some quiet singing. When her hive mind hyper focuses it’s wonderours to see plus anything to avoid revising!

JumpersFluffy · 16/10/2026 06:52

Hope you got some sleep those whose minds where whirling last night. I’m still limping on with this Covid like virus both DH & I have it. It’s not bad enough to be in bed but both making us feel very fatigued with all the usual symptoms. I’ve been on paracetamol for 9days now really hoping it lifts soon.

Lougle · 16/10/2026 07:33

That's so lovely @JumpersFluffy

@PurringTiger the forms are horrible. I'm glad you got an earlier night.

drspouse · 16/10/2026 07:46

Woke up to 40 messages, now I see several people couldn't sleep. Hope you all have calm days.
DS at Explorers again, DH saying "he doesn't really need me there does he?". I left him all last week's meeting so I hope so!

Zzzzzs · 16/10/2026 08:58

Sleep is hard here too. I feel a huge pressure to do more “activities” with ds1, despite the fact I am very sure he is happy as is and what he needs is to focus on life skills at home. We got sloppy while he was at college and I do far too much for him that he would (once the “I don’t want to be independent “ vibe has been got over) be much happier doing himself. He’s very tired from the new valproate. I know they are going to review his support (direct payments 9hrs atm) any moment. I have no idea what would be a good outcome.

@Violasilkie I think you are jumping at shadows. Your ds has very significant disability and I really think you just need to answer each question with examples (don’t worry about repeating yourself). We had the same issue with no GP contact and no professional input when ds was HE. Just be honest, and direct. It’s a horrid process but I’d scribble through the whole thing and then read it back in a few days.

Actually the GP thing is always an issue for us as a family. Beyond jabs and emergencies we just don’t really use them. Most of my children have only been once or twice and are now adults. I suppose because we had such big medical stuff with dd3 and then so much disability stuff with ds I always feel we can deal with the rest. I go if they ask me to. So much of these things are luck.

The sun is shining and builders are gone for a week now and one of ds’s teachers has cancelled….bliss.

Zzzzzs · 16/10/2026 10:05

I should also say I have found one or two possible new things to do for ds. I just feel like nothing is ever enough. I suppose it’s the nature of parenting that you could always do more or better.

Violasilkie · 16/10/2026 10:42

Sorry the PIP process is stressful @PurringTiger

Hope everyone managed to get to sleep eventually. My mind is also in overdrive at the moment and I have to distract it as its in alert danger mode. Though this makes me somewhat hyperactive and DH is the opposite going into sleep until midday mode. But between us we can carry on somewhat grumpily in DHs case. Will be glad when this PIP thing is over and hope they renew it for a reasonable period. I do find work on the house and garden does help distract me otherwise I am down rabbit holes of stupid, or not stupid but can't change them, worries like I keep obsessing over a red spot I have on the arm incase its skin cancer and I know its stupid as it just looks like an insect bite but my mind is struggling to switch off. I think my mind does this when I am really worried about something else (long term DS) as a distraction random worry.

The GPs surgery have replied to council tax and update e-mail to say forwarding to relevant people which is a start. Though realised as DS is now an adult we may have consent issues which is an issue more widely with anything involving professionals as he can't write or speak and is hostile to all professional involvement or us having contact. At the moment there's no obvious medical issues beyond that but if there were I am not sure how we solve this. Though at least he is hopefully still on the DSR list and the doctors have been helpful in past but its random who you get and last time I was in contact he was a child. DH did see them this year when he was an adult and they asked about him. Its also an issue for bills, we can't do anything. Not a big issue but we can't get the UC discount. I wonder if council tax form will also fail with consent. We will see. Its not a huge issue, about £75 a month and if DD returns here after university we will go off that anyway.

Car is in the garage as rear brake has gone and being repaired. We don't use it much but do need it to get to DIY stores but have a lot of things here so can get on with other work.

That sounds good @Zzzzzs a week with no builders and no teachers and sun. Its surprisingly good weather here. I can probably get round the GP issue this time its longer term and as its all services. If it gets renewed for a few years it'll give us some breathing space, well until the call from that UC jobs for young people scheme.

Hope you feel better soon @JumpersFluffy

roaringdragon · 16/10/2026 11:46

@PurringTiger hurrah for success with the assignment and an early finish.

@JumpersFluffy how brilliant. I hope you feel better soon.

@drspouse I’m glad Explorers is going well.

@Zzzzzs sorry sleep is difficult for you too. Enjoy the week without builders around. If you want an increase in PA hours, even if you don’t plan to use them all now, the end of college is a solid reason to support an increase in hours now. DS doesn’t have to be doing activities all the time with the PA.

@Violasilkie the council tax SMI discount doesn’t require consent from the person with SMI. Many of those eligible for the SMI discount wouldn’t be able to give informed consent because the definition of SMI for council tax purposes is “a severe impairment of intelligence and social functioning (however caused) which appears to be permanent.” Doesn’t your DS have LCWRA? The Youth Guarantee Scheme isn’t mandatory for those with LCWRA. You don’t have to have any phone calls about it.

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PurringTiger · 16/10/2026 11:57

@Zzzzzs thats the only brilliant thing about building noise. When it stops it feels extra peaceful. Enjoy!

@roaringdragon hope you are feeling better today.

and you too @Lougle

@JumpersFluffy K pop played as it’s never been played 😃.

LathkillDale · 16/10/2026 12:06

@roaringdragon and @Lougle - I don’t know about the NHS, but I know that LAs historically employed CIPFA accountants, which is a different branch of the profession to us. We don’t know much about them, apart from one of my uni friends qualified as a CIPFA - he told me his LA was a big mess financially, with the accounts dept. not even understanding double entry book-keeping! There may be more crossover now, that trainees in our profession can train in industry, whereas in our day, we could only train in our professional firms. I have known a couple of accountants, who audited LAs, but I have never asked them what they think about them. (I don’t like auditing full stop).

I looked at my LA’s accounts once. I can’t remember, but they probably have income and expenditure accounts, which are used in non-trading entities, instead of profit and loss accounts, and they come down to a surplus of income over expenditure rather than a profit.

In our profession, wages, NI ‘ers, pensions and staff training would all be expense headings under staff costs. They are not add ons, just integral parts. It would be like saying pastry is an add on in an apple pie, when it wouldn’t be an apple pie without it!

As for trying not to fund staff training or whatever in your PBs, that’s just another tactic in their dirty tricks repertoire to save money, in the hope parents don’t know any better.

Say there are two SS teams in my LA, that needed to have regular liaison meetings - the room was booked, and refreshments organised. The catering department charged each SS team, say £2 per head for their tea and biscuits, which would form part of their accounting. I assume, SS would also be charged internally for the room hire? A friend, who worked there offered to buy a box of tea bags and a few pints of milk every week, to save her department £80 per week - so they could spend it on front line services instead.

They sound very bureaucratic and inefficient by our standards, when we have to think about how much our time costs, in units of 6 minutes and apply that to everything we do. For instance, there if a staff member wants to ask their predecessor a question about the job, they can’t go over to their desk and ask them. They have to book a meeting in a meeting room! All that is going to achieve really is hold up your work!

If, they themselves go into that detail in their own accounting; it’s inconceivable that they don’t consider major expenses like NI’ers, pensions and staff training when drawing up their own staffing budgets and they aren’t aware parents incur these costs in a PB?

DD1 sees her on site GP regularly, whenever she has a minor medical problem, and usually within 48 hours. Anyway, the onsite doctors are very good at writing letters for the DWP. The downside is though, that we don’t get clinic summaries after each meeting with the onsite consultant neurologist, so I have to use historic letters from her previous NHS consultants. I always write, that as there is no known cure for brain abnormalities or epilepsy, nothing has changed since then, and submit the annual seizure records (which are getting worse).

roaringdragon · 16/10/2026 12:26

@PurringTiger I’m OK, thank you.

@LathkillDale LAs know on-costs exist, which is why many mention them on their websites and in the PB/DP policies, but that doesn’t stop them regularly trying to avoid covering them. I’m well aware trying not to fund on-costs is a dirty tactic used to try to save money and fob parents off, hence why I am chasing the LA about it, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need accounting for in DPs, they do.

I looked at my LA’s accounts once. I can’t remember, but they probably have income and expenditure accounts, which are used in non-trading entities, instead of profit and loss accounts, and they come down to a surplus of income over expenditure rather than a profit.

This makes me think you have maybe misunderstood what I am talking about. I’m not talking about the LA’s accounts, but yes, when we (me/DH/EOTIS co-ordinator/pay-roll company) manage DS1’s PB we record income and expenditure. The minuscule surplus (a whole £1.18 for the last year) is returned at the end of the year. My LA doesn’t allow us to carry forward surplus into the next year.

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Lougle · 16/10/2026 12:37

All on-costs means is that you can't take a base salary and budget for it. All of the employer costs have to be included. These are known as 'on-costs'. For a staff member such as @roaringdragon needs, the on-costs will be Employer NI, Employer Pension contributions, any training, holiday/sick pay, etc.

People often get confused about why school budgets are so highly skewed towards staffing because they look at the base salary and forget the on-costs.

Zzzzzs · 16/10/2026 15:19

My mind is tired of budgets and tracking. It took several hours to pay ds’s employers insurance yesterday. It’s a ridiculous system and the website for the card company is so so badly built it feels like a scam (think GCSE computer science standard). The drop down menus include lists of LAs that should be in alphabetical order but have obviously been manually entered by someone unfamiliar with how that system works. I’d laugh but it’s abysmal and like the pharmacy wastes my time. I feel sad at the wasted time not the needed time.

The sun is shining and while I’m so tired I’m lying down, my week-work is done so I have the rest of the day freeeeeeeee.

Violasilkie · 16/10/2026 19:39

Thanks @roaringdragon Yes he gets LCWRA and so far its just been one call a year which is fine and voluntary but I had a feeling it was originally planned to become compulsory next year and think its around February they phone. I think it will probably be fine and will worry about that if it happens later.

Our car was repaired today and we have her back with one small thing left to do next week but fine to drive. Have now filled in SMI form and sent to GPs as says on form GP sends back direct to council tax. But there's another council tax form online which I filled in but says they won't accept unless I upload GPs completed SMI form that says on it don't send back to applicant. Its almost like they want to make it difficult to claim. I sent it anyway but says it will be rejected but its impossible as they have set it up. I will await GPs response and then phone council tax.

DH is sleeping again - I'm kind of half jealous of his ability to sleep. DS was in / out every 2 minutes today. The shelf brackets are currently lost by Royal Mail, seem to be having problems with low staff levels, Royal Mail 48 seems to be days rather than hours, though we can do other things. I did a couple of hours in the garden clearing the leaves with the silkies and weeding and now whole garden is done and also cleaning floors downstairs and cleaning DSs bathroom. I discovered he had just started using a hairdryer I bought him in January - he's never used one before. Cleared his rubbish.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

roaringdragon · 16/10/2026 22:35

@Zzzzzs I hope your lie down helped.

@Violasilkie there are no rules currently confirmed about making any engagement with the youth guarantee scheme compulsory for those with LCWRA next year. You don’t even have to have the phone calls about it.

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Zzzzzs · 17/10/2026 08:30

Ds has LCWRA and we have no contact with anyone at all. Realistically he can’t leave the house alone or do a WFH job so any conversation would be brief box ticking anyway. @Violasilkie your boy needs what he is getting. Worrying about if it all got muddled and someone mistook the situation and would try to get him enrolled in some new style YTS scheme (shows age) is fruitless. Even if it happened all you could do is challenge the situation. You can’t position yourself to avoid that so I’d just forget it.
You know in your posts there are whispers of improvement. Communication and cooperation ARE there and you should be proud of what you’ve achieved for him so far. What with that always and redundancy and sheds and renovations you have a lot on your plate. Don’t borrow trouble. Honk honk

Violasilkie · 17/10/2026 14:19

Thanks @roaringdragon that's a relief.

Thanks @Zzzzzs Your DS would not be affected as it's for those out of education and / or employment for over 18 months and our area has been a trial area. The once a year calls are fine, it's just there was a proposal before to make it mandatory or no UC but think that maybe didn't get through. The scheme itself is good, it's just DS is nowhere near that and the constant press/MN/Reform climate of taking benefits away from young people especially autistic boys or making it linked to therapies of which DS won't do any and he won't care if benefits go.

Most of the time I don't give it much headspace but the pip form arrival makes you think about the future and we are at risk of running into issues as DS won't deal with anyone but us and even us is very reluctant and won't consent to anyone speaking to us or us sorting things. We have managed workarounds so far but the system is he needs to consent and he's like lalala there is no issue if nobody discusses anything, world go away. But if pip is renewed a few years he is slowly improving that will give us some breathing space and also once I am 55 I can start my pension which helps. Once the work is finished it will help, currently we have money going out left, right and centre even doing most of the work ourselves.