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[ExistingonCoffee]

A thread for all who have DC with SN. The thread is deleted and 90 days and doesn’t show in active. The fire is on and the bar is well stocked.

I hope the additional support helps @BlueandWhitePorcelain - and that she feels able to accept support and work with them too, I don't know how receptive she might be at the moment to that.

There's no wording from school or EP to state education out of year group unfortunately.
I feel like the original F wasn't linked to B. The LEA are dragging their feet because there's "too much provision" because I tried to link every B to an F whereas nothing was linked before.

@drspouse if being educated outside of chronological year group isn’t in F, it doesn’t have to be provided. That is the problem with a poor F. If DS is currently being educated in the year below, you can use that as evidence.

F is always based on the needs in B. F may be poor, inadequate, not reflective of real needs and parents may disagree with it, but F is always based on the content of B, even loosely. It is the golden thread that runs through the EHCP.

@BlueandWhitePorcelain i hope this is the help that your DD2 needs.

@ExistingonCoffee he's in Y9 but is in a class with only Y7 and Y8 so at least we have that evidence.

@ExistingonCoffee - have you ever come across the phrase in a SALT report ”moderate support”? I don’t even know what that means? I have read countless LA and independent SALT reports, but don’t recall that phrase?

I always had DD1 assessed by SALTs, as recommended by my solicitor for tribunals, so all her reports were properly specified!

@ExistingonCoffee I've been thinking about the sections B and F and I think this is how it's gone:
Earlier DS had a lot of needs in SEMH but not as many obvious needs in SLC and his EHCP made him sound like a horrible child frankly. The provision in F was mainly SEMH though not massively effective or evidence based and not much SLC.
Now we have tried to get the out of date SEMH needs removed and the up to date SLC needs put in. We have also tried to detail the needs more tightly e.g. how often should helping him organise his work be done and for how long, how many sessions of extra reading should he have per week, which staff should do it and which scheme should they use (or which category of scheme). I think this is what the LEA is objecting to. No needs were linked to provisions - it was all in one mess - so they have got away with not listing provisions for needs. I'd say probably about 3/4 of my changes were tightening up the linkage or the timing etc.
If we send the last EHCP schools will see him as an aggressive child with few SLC needs and with mainly regulation and organisation provision. If we send what I think they will put together, section B should be up to date and about 75% of section F will be there but almost none will have quantification. However, it will give a realistic view of him as a much more mature child (though possibly not giving a realistic view of his ability) who nevertheless needs a lot of social communication input. This would hopefully help them to see him as a good fit for an SLC setting that can deal with some anxiety. I am just hoping they will be aware of how useless the LEA is at quantifying, or we will have to wait as you say 2 years for the EHCP to be fit for purpose.

@BlueandWhitePorcelain I have, unfortunately. Not just in SALT reports. Also in reports from other professionals. It is a meaningless phase. It doesn’t tell you about the needs or provision required. I would suggest the parent of whoever the report is about goes back to the SALT (and LA if the LA has commissioned).

We have also tried to detail the needs more tightly e.g. how often should helping him organise his work be done and for how long, how many sessions of extra reading should he have per week, which staff should do it and which scheme should they use (or which category of scheme).

@drspouse you aren’t trying to detail the needs more tightly here. These aren’t needs you are giving examples of. It is provision. It belongs in F and supports the need for F to be amended, via appeal if necessary. If it isn’t detailed, specified and quantified in F, it doesn’t have to be provided. Many LAs confuse needs and provision, but it is important they are in the correct section otherwise they won’t be funded, may not be provided and can’t be enforced.

SS don’t always organise their classes based on, or solely on, year groups, so being in a class with Y7&8 won’t necessarily prove DS is being educated out of his chronological year group and needs to continue to be.

That's what I meant - provision that I was trying to tighten up. Really unfortunate typing quickly problem there! I did also have to move some wording between B and F.

If only it were that simple…..She accused me yesterday of giving the baby herpes, while I was winding her. I don’t have a cold sore. This, when she insisted I wash my hands about every 5 minutes, while looking after DGD. I have been at the hospital 5 - 8 hours a day, missing meals and only getting home 11.30 pm - 1.30 am. I must admit I was tired, and I walked out, saying she ought to look after the baby, if nobody else is up to her standards. (I’ve had 4 months of this already in the pregnancy).

Her OH also walked out, telling the MH midwife, he can’t cope with DD2’s OCD demands. DD2 expects him to be there 24/7 with no food or sleep. He’s had no breakfast or lunch, the last 2 days! He asked the midwives to look after DGD. A student midwife picked DGD up. DD2 accused her of giving the baby herpes. DD2 was having panic attacks and screaming continuously last night and this morning about the student midwife. She demanded to know the student midwife’s medical history. Staff are not allowed to work in maternity if they have a cold sore. They have to go off sick! Herpes can kill newborns.

She is now washing her own hands 3 times, before she’ll feed the baby. (She’s not changed a nappy yet, so what is on her hands?)

Who is going to support DD2, when she accuses everyone else of causing the baby serious harm? Even if they sent her to the mother and baby unit, she’d be complaining their hygiene wasn’t good enough!

@BlueandWhitePorcelain that sounds impossibly difficult for DD2 and all of you. Sorry it’s all continued following birth. Your DD2 must be absolutely exhausted mentally and physically. Tackling her health issues while she is already in hospital is hopefully a better starting position than post discharge.

DD had an oral exam today, what a ride. Heavy machinery outside our house all day that shook the house and the noise was unbearable for me let alone DD. No sleep and no practice it was looking like a no show but a last minute rally and she joined the zoom. Phew! Just left with the ‘I wasn’t good enough thoughts’ until results come in.

@BlueandWhitePorcelain do you think DD2 will need medication to allow any support?

Oh my word @HedgehogsAgree , what a result! Regardless of the result. The win is in doing it! What anxiety she has overcome to do it.

SS have agreed that DD1 will be given 15 hours per week support. They've also agreed that it needs to be someone who knows what they're doing, so it's gone out to brokerage. If I'm right, I think DD1 will be expected to pay £120 per week, which works out about £8 per hour. But hopefully it will be worth it.

After spending ages working out why we haven't heard from the ADHD service about DD1 (GP had an old email address for her) it turns out that the ADHD service she was referred to turned down the referral because she has a diagnosed LD and is receiving psychological support. So the LD psychiatrist has decided she can assess. It just means that I've had to trawl through all her early records to find reports of her childhood behaviour and scan, collate and summarise them.

The Intensive Support Team has turned us down because they have decided DD1 isn't exhibiting enough harm to self or others, or the placement isn't at imminent risk of breakdown. The psychologist replied to my email saying that she was shocked, and when I suggested that perhaps I didn't seem distressed enough, she just sent a 😲

I do think I'm seeing glimmers of improvement in DD1 today. She still got agitated and angry about lunch/snacks, etc., but she has been slightly calmer in between and she has started having day time naps again when she's tired (she had been refusing them and getting desperately tired).

Therein lies another problem! She’s on an antipsychotic. They forgot to give it to her, two nights running. Imo, this caused the massive deterioration yesterday and today! It’s beyond belief!

Very well done Mini Hedgehog!

DD had a really bad evening yesterday but apologised today and played flute really well, DS has had a bit of a breakthrough in guitar too, I mean a breakthrough for a child with dyspraxia and ADHD in that he can play and remember two notes and is also trying to play them alternately fast. Now if I could just scrape out some time to practice my instrument...

Who is going to support DD2, when she accuses everyone else of causing the baby serious harm? Even if they sent her to the mother and baby unit, she’d be complaining their hygiene wasn’t good enough!

This sounds like an impossible position to be in @BlueandWhitePorcelain. If she is in a position where she won't do things like nappy changes herself and also won't allow the baby to be touched by others or by medical professionals then there is a possibility that social workers will escalate.

Will your SIL take the baby if your DD has to go back to hospital @BlueandWhitePorcelain ?

@HedgehogsAgree that is a huge achievement. Well done DD.

The Intensive Support Team has turned us down because they have decided DD1 isn't exhibiting enough harm to self or others, or the placement isn't at imminent risk of breakdown.

@lougle is the IST on a different planet?

@BlueandWhitePorcelain sorry, I intended to tag you in a reply. I'm so sorry, it sounds exhausting for you all. I do hope they can help your DD. Motherhood has its ups and downs but it's so sad that she's experiencing such distress at what should be at least a mostly positive time.

@ExistingonCoffee it was a bizarre assessment process. The rating system was 0-4. 0 not a problem, then 1 mild, 2 moderate, 3 severe, 4 very severe. The Positive Behaviour Practitioner was listening to my descriptions and saying '...so a 2?' and I was saying 'Umm... Well I guess you can call it a 2 if you like...I mean it doesn't feel like a 2, but I know there are people who are worse/stronger/more dangerous.' Then the behavioural analyst was saying 'no, I'd say it's a 4 because....'

I mean, take food. DD1 cut herself, threatened to stab herself, and left the house because we didn't give her the food she feels she should have. That surely can't be a 'moderate' response.

I was left with the feeling it was all a bit arbitrary and that the PBP was either new or lacking confidence in her assessment.

Maybe she thinks "Positive Behaviour Practitioner" means "being positive about all behaviour" @Lougle? 🤔

@Lougle. Thanks, we were only saying last night, this should be a happy and exciting time of their lives, and it’s not - well, I think OH is excited, but it’s tinged with a lot of stress!

Ime, the judgement of HCPs in MH is skewed, by the world they live in - overwhelmed by demand on inadequate resources. I remember one, who’d just assessed adult DD2 in A & E, saying wearily they were going to assess a suicidal child next, and they’d get no help from CAMHS! The rest of us, see a suicidal child as definitely needing help, but they don’t even make the criteria here.

@BlueandWhitePorcelain I guess you have to wait until her missed medication is established again and see if that brings enough of a gateway for DD2 to accept help. What a blunder by the hospital.

It’s Birthday celebrations for DD today! Board games and quizzes ready and waiting.

Happy birthday to your little penguin @HedgehogsAgree

Plague house here though DS has escaped. On anti virals but hoping our wild pig doesn't take a muddy bath for an hour in our bathroom tonight. Getting DD on Saturday.

Oh happy happy birthday to your DD @HedgehogsAgree !!

Sorry you're poorly @Squirrelsandhedgehogs

I got a text from the Social Worker today: "Please confirm your contingency plan , who would look after DD1 if you were not able to do it one day" I replied to say that these seemed quite important questions to be discussing over text messages! She has offered to switch to email. I barely know her.

Thanks @Lougle Sounds like SW has a form to fill in. Sorry the ICB did not offer any help and minimised the issues. I hope the social care offer might help though it's hard to have people in your home every day. I would like my own garden shed / tiny house with that though 3 hours is borderline for me. I hope it's someone that is very easy and helpful, some people are so much easier than others to have around.

Feeling very grim at the moment but very lucky to have a lovely new GP who prescribed me the anti virals and they are working but I will be about a stone lighter after them. On them to Monday but had collapsed before so really need them. DS seems to be avoiding it, one advantage of being reclusive. We did still have the new cleaner come and steered well clear and she did a good job. DS didn't let her in this time but she did just under 2 hours of a lot of rest of house. She is lovely and loves our chickens, cat and my penguin tiles. She is a nice person to have for DS as well. I use his pip for it as it's his mud though we pre clean but it helps.

Sorry about the port @ExistingonCoffee

Hope things get better @BlueandWhitePorcelain I found a newborn hard but once they start sleeping through it's a little easier. I don't know if when the baby is vaccinated that will help calm your DD a little. I know when mine was born I was very worried how do I keep this thing alive but then I realised they were tougher than they looked. Does sound like psychosis or similar as well as OCD if she's convinced about herpes. The handwashing is very OCD and easier to work around. I hope social care consider your DD2s needs as well as the babies but think it varies a lot who you get and she's unlikely to want someone she doesn't know.