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School punishment

21 replies

Carryoncatsbum · 06/07/2010 22:27

Just had SA refused. Ds has suspected AS and is always in trouble for walking away from staff. Today he had more bother with children and due to misunderstanding instructions he is in trouble again for being rude to staff and walking away. School 'phoned to let us know and advised that ds would be missing lunctime play for the rest of this week and all of next week. Think this is a bit much but can't get them to understand that walking away is his way of coping. Know this is another good bit of evidence for tribunal but fed up that ds now feeling really upset and even more anxious than ususal!

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tribunalgoer · 06/07/2010 22:29

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anonandlikeit · 06/07/2010 22:40

Not sure, depends if they are balancing the punishment with any positive strategies, teaching him how he could deal with the situation.
I would be happy for maybe missing lunchtimes for this week (depends on his age but next week aswell could be a bit harsh)
The school need to understand that your ds will probably not know the correct, socially acceptable response to the teachers unless they TELL him and work with him to change how he deals with these situations.

Goblinchild · 06/07/2010 22:58

Congratulations to your boy, I spent years trying to get mine to walk away from stressful situations rather than hitting.
The staff need to be aware that it's one of his coping strategies. If he had a specific quiet place to report to when he walks off, then you can build it up to an understanding of him not being rude, just being unable to cope at that specific moment. If he just walks off, the uninitiated will think that he's 'naughty'
Midday supervisors need specific training to deal with ASDs, and to know that they follow the rules and guidance set up for individuals.

TheArsenicCupCake · 06/07/2010 23:09

We had this with ds2 and school. Being seen as rude and naughty when he walked away when he was on overload.. And if he couldn't ' escape' the situation ds2 would then meltdown.

It got to the point that a TA butted in a conversation I was having with his class teacher and told me that if he carried on behaving in that manner he wouldn't go on the residential trip.

I wrote a dummy guide to ds2 including signs of distress and how to deal with non responsiveness and also how he can come across as rude, but this was the onlookers issue by not understanding his needs.

Handed it to the school, who thought it was fab.. And have photocopied it and used it to train all staff in the school.

I would reccomend writing a dummies guide.. And ask the school how they are going to help with social skills.

TheArsenicCupCake · 06/07/2010 23:10

If you want a copy of my guide just yell and I'll email it to you.. Then just nabb the bits that will work in your situation.

claw3 · 06/07/2010 23:12

Write to the school to confirm your telephone conversation and the action they plan to take.

Tell them this is your ds's way of coping, because of his disability he has difficulties understanding and following instructions and finds confrontation extremely difficulty and ask them what strategies they have in place to deal with this when it happens.

What help and support your ds receives to proactively teach him how to respond to these situations.

What help and support is he getting to help him to 'fit in' socially, to help prevent further incidents of 'bother' with other children.

What help and support is he getting to help him to understand and follow instructions.

and that you are disappointed and feel it inappropriate that he is being reprimanded for his difficulties, rather than receiving help and support.

Goblinchild · 06/07/2010 23:13

I did a handler's guide to DS when he started secondary. Worked well, and for the times that things went wrong, I could often link it to something I'd predicted as a consequence on the sheet. So teachers started to realise that the guide made sense.

claw3 · 06/07/2010 23:17

Sorry should have added in a nice polite way of course, as they are backing your request

TheArsenicCupCake · 06/07/2010 23:18

goblin... The guide for ds2 is now in his files and a seperate copy has already been passed on to secondary for his transition!
It has been invaluable!

Carryoncatsbum · 06/07/2010 23:22

Thanks all. Arsenic - guide sounds good and I might take you up on the offer just think that school would not be very receptive to this.Deputy Head has said he will write a report of the incident as knows I am going to appeal the sa refusal. I will ask him to ensure that he records the punishment that was given as this will be good evidence of them not being able to meet his needs.

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TheArsenicCupCake · 06/07/2010 23:32

If you email me at blackcoffeenosugar @ hotmail dot co dot uk I'll whizz it over to you when I get back from work tomorrow. ( am in bed on the iPhone ATM lol)

there might be bits in it that will you can use to show his needs aren't being met... If they apply.

Bigpants1 · 07/07/2010 01:40

Hi. I think the punishment is too harsh-all of next week as well-what is he supposed to learn from that? I think you need to stand your ground with the school over this. You could point out to them, that even though they have repeatedly punished your ds in this way, it clearly is not working, as ds keeps repeating the same pattern of behaviour!
It is time to start getting everything in writing. Your ds is being discriminated against due to his SN, and as such the school is breaking the law.
The school can find a way to work with your ds in these situations-they are choosing not to. If your ds needs to walk away when stressed/angry/overwhelmed,the school could agree to let him go to a designated place/room and agree a time to let him calm down-10mins. Then, ds could be spoken to in private and it could be clearly explained to him what he had done wrong, and adult concerned, could clarify with ds his understanding of things.
Your ds does not need to wait for tribunal for school to implement this. Insist ds has an adult in the playground at break and lunch to help prevent misunderstandings with peers, as it is probably at these times that he is most stressed and in sensory overload. Good Luck.

IndigoBell · 07/07/2010 07:05

This is not on - keep him home from school. This is a very harsh punsihment and totally out of proportion to the (supposed) problem. My DS would go ballistic.

And investigate moving schools. If they don't 'get it' - they never will.

streakybacon · 07/07/2010 09:19

Oh dear. This brings back so many unhappy memories of ds's time in two schools that failed him the same way. He DID have a diagnosis and pupil profiles prepared by me and the Ed Psych/Outreach but they were ignored.

Walking away in stressful situations was my ds's way of coping too, and like others here it took a lot of hard work and training to get him to do that rather than lash out. None of this was supported by school staff which is why it took so long.

One of the schools he went to had an ASD unit and staff were supposedly 'very experienced' yet they operated a zero tolerance policy on this type of behaviour and it extended to the autistic children too, which was clearly ridiculous as they often couldn't grasp what they were doing wrong. His class teacher would rant on about minor misdemeanours, often still furious with him at the end of the day over something he'd done at morning break. He was a bag of nerves who didn't know what to do for the best.

I agree with the poster who said it's a reasonable punishment if school are providing proactive support as well and helping the child learn how to change the challenging behaviour, but punishment on its own doesn't work in these cases.

Yes, get everything in writing if you can. But recognise that your current school might just not grasp autism and understand how to work with ASD children. For some, inclusion means being the same as everyone else and they don't realise that some children simply can't do this. If this is the case at your school you may have to cut your losses and find somewhere that does understand and is prepared to give the support your dds needs.

We ended up HEing because we couldn't guarantee that what schools offer would actually be provided. I hope you find a solution.

cory · 07/07/2010 09:45

You may find some inspiration in this document:

equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/drc_schools_code.pdf

Carryoncatsbum · 07/07/2010 10:55

Thanks for comments. Senco even stated not long ago that they have had loads of AS children through the school and know how to deal with them! I'm in a tricky position as a governor there and don't really want to move schools. They have been very good but now problems are resurfacing again it seems to be going all downhill.

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imahappycamper · 07/07/2010 13:42

If he is missing lunchtime play what will he be doing? If he is going to be sitting outside the Head's door cross legged on the floor (my Head's usual way of dealing with those missing lunchtime play) he is going to find that quite hard I would have thought. Two weeks of doing that is certainly too much. Also this type of punishment is not going to help him modify his behaviour in future.
Someone else made the point that you need to make sure he is not being discriminated against when he does some thing related to his disability. Walking off in this sort of situation is just what my Aspie DS does.

claw3 · 07/07/2010 14:03

Carry, look at this way, the school are backing your request which means they need/want help to identify your ds's difficulties and need help with implementing the right help and support.

So your grounds are

  1. A full assessment is the only way to find out what your ds's difficulties are. (school are agreeing with you)
  1. School cannot give all the help to meet his needs unless they receive help from the LA (school are agreeing with you)
  1. The school have given your ds all the help they can and he had not made enough progress (school are agreeing with you)

Whether the school have knowledge of AS children or not, is not important.

Dont see it as a tricky position, school are agreeing with you. Approach it as working together to meet his needs.

Have the school put into writing how much help your ds receives already and do you have a copy?

Carryoncatsbum · 07/07/2010 14:06

Claw - don't have exact amount of help written down. Paperwork sent to LA re. SA stated: individual support - time per week - constant! IEP states time per week - as required!

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claw3 · 07/07/2010 14:33

Aha, you can use that. IEP he previously received help as required, he has now regressed to needing constant help! Lack of progress and even better regression.

LA wont have a leg to stand on. School are saying that he needs constant help and even with constant help he is not progressing. Pure statementing gold

Get your letter sent off to LA and tell them you are lodging your appeal with SENDIST, once you have lodged your reasons for appeal (this can be very short), im betting just the fact that you have lodged your appeal they will back down.

Carryoncatsbum · 07/07/2010 14:49

Thanks again Claw. So glad there are people like you on here to help!

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