Slapping!!!

[jayzmummy]

DS2 has begun to slap and it really hurts. He has always in the past made a beeline for myself and its normally me that is on the receiving end of his pinches, kicks or punches BUT over the past few days he has started to branch out and is slapping anyone who dares to get to close.

This morning a friends son came round to see DS1 and they were sat chatting in the garden. J walked over to where the guys were and stood next to the friend. All of a sudden out of the blue he whacked the poor guy full pelt across the face

I picked J up and removed him from the garden. DH came to find out what was going on and we both tried to talk to J about slapping other people....its not a nice...it hurts and DH slapped J on the hand so he "would feel how much it hurts". Im really against smaking so DH and I have had quiet words BUT DH is saying he feels that its the only way J will learn.

The whole time we were talking to J he was punching his head really hard, then he began head banging against the wall. Then he was asking DH to "mack more"....this made DH feel awful for slapping his hand and we feel like we have opened up a can of worms as all day J has asked for "macks".

I know that some ASD children get a "kick" from hitting their heads and faces. J has done his for about a year now. I think maybe that J believes that others feel the same as he does, when he does it to them???? What do you think????

This afternoon I took the guys down to the beach for a walk. J wanted some friut from the cafe bar and whilst I was waiting to be served J slapped two other people...thankfully they were understanding and accepted my apologies...J got no fruit, which then left me with two nasty scratches down my arm and a screaming child to contend with.

This aggressive behaviour is really begining to worry me. It was bad enough that he would lash out at me BUT now he is doing it to others Im really worried.

Any advice?

Sorry Jayzmummy - no advice I do feel for you though. Ds2 slaps me in the face (and I think its out of frustration because he has no expressive language), it hurts enough when he does it, but it doesnt bare thinking about what it feels like when a 9 year old is the smacker!

I wondered initially whether J slapped R's friend because he was jealous of the fact that they were sharing time together and he felt left out. That obviously doesn't account for the incident at the beach though.

I'm sure you'll get some sage advice from others on here though.

Hi JM, sorry to hear you're having a bad time with smacking. FWIW we've been through the 'smacking back' thing for a while and have abandoned it as a bad job. J simply can't make that connection, even though he fully understands the theory behind it. At the time he can't apply it, as with so many things. The problem is the emotional issue behind the need to slap (for my J, at least, not sure if it's the same for yours) and when he's over-emotional in any way he can't think as clearly as when he's calm so inappropriate behaviour takes over.

I think you're doing the right thing by using reward and punishment strategies to teach J not to slap but it might not be enough. We have just begun having visits from the mental health nurse at C&FP, initially to advise on our management strategies (she can't, we're doing everything by the book - ho hum..) but she's going to do some work on J's anger and tantrums. perhaps there's some similar service in your area that your J could benefit from.

I should add that I had no idea such a service existed until I met with J's psychiatrist in June when I was at the end of my rope and not coping with J any more, and it was she who told me that the service was there. We didn't wait long for a first visit and she's coming back to start work proper in September.

Good luck.

jayzmummy i have similar experience with my ds who,s almost nine and has AS, he smacks when he,s frustrated and ive often seen him hitting himself in the head for no reason and ive drawn the same conclusion as you that he actually enjoys doing it. when i mentioned it to his psychologist the other day he said that he is going to do some anger management techniques with ds as this is why he does it when he cant express himself,dont know if this is same as your ds though

I really need some advice before I end up doing something I might regret

J has been very violent over the past few weeks.
He is still slapping anyone who gets too close.
Last week he hit DS1 so hard in the face that he fractured an old break in DS1's nose. Poor lovey is really suffering having a little Rocky for a brother!
Tonight J totally lost it again and whacked DS1 again in the face....blood everywhere as the nose has errupted again! DH is at the hospital now with DS1.
Ive just spent the last hour and a half pinning J down on his bed. He becomes so violent that its starting to really scare me. His rage is so intense. He is getting stronger by the day and so is his temper.The rages are lasting longer and longer and then as fast as they come they disappear.
After the rage J sits on the floor tipping pennies out of his jar and then putting them back in again...over and over again. This is his "unwinding" routine. Noone can talk to him or touch him whilst he is doing this or else he melts down again.
He hit the teacher at school today so things are obviously not going so well.
I really dont know what to do anymore
Im soooooo tired because he isnt sleeping at all well. 3 nights of last week I was up all night with him. DS1 hates his little brother and is always trying to avoid coming home after school, simply because he can not cope with the meltdowns anymore.

Im just really pi55ed off. What with the major upset with my folks last week and J's violence I just cant take anymore.

Sorry to hear things are getting no better JM. Did you ask around about anger management services or some other therapy to address his aggression? If not it sounds as though now is the time to try. I can't think of anything practical in the meantime though and can only offer sympathy, fwiw.

Thanks Karen. The CPN is coming out to see us next week at home to work out some strategies that we could try.

The last time she came she told us to try the time out method...easier said than done. how do you explain to a child that what they ahve done is unacceptable and that they have to sit out for 5 mins to calm down when

1. he does not recognise the consequences of his actions

2. he has no concept of time

3. he shows no remorse

4. he likes siting on the stairs and actually enjoys being alone!!!!

Weve tried social stories but he just doesnt get them.

Getting him ready for school this morning was a real struggle and he was hoisted into the taxi screaming and shouting. Not a happy start to the day and I am sure that school are going to have problems today

ds1 started to pinch other people when he became more aware ofv them- it was an attempt at interaction. At the moment it is fine (now I've said that it'll start again) and was dealt with by school. They took a calmly negative approach which seems to have worked.

If ds1 hits himself (on purpose or accidentally) he has to hit the same spot on the other side. Maybe that's why J asked for more macks. If I accidentally knock ds1 for example he will grab my hand and start bashing himself with it on the other side. (or if he knocks a chair in passing he goes back and does the other side).

Im sure J's slapping of other people is his way of getting their attention.
His violence towards DS1 and myself though is, I am sure, his frustration.
Last night J nutted DS1 in the face because J couldnt find his box of keys. He was hunting for them and couldnt find them. Instead of asking for help he just walked over to DS1 and nutted him full on in the face
He said that DS1 knew that J couldnt find his box...D1 didnt even know he was looking for the box....I guess thats the lack of theory of mind kicking in?

How awful, Jaysmummy. Have you talked to the school about strategies for dealing with this? What do they do? IME some forms of time out can be surprisingly effective even for children with quite limited understanding and it may be worth giving the CPN's advice a good consistent try. Personally I would definitely try to avoid lots of talking and explaining how wrong his behaviour is. It's a trap that I fall into a lot with my children who are NT and it often doesn't work. With children with special needs it can be a disaster, IME. I also suspect from stuff you've said about him before that J absolutely knows at some level that hitting and nutting people is wrong. He's either unable to control himself in the heat of the moment or he's doing this for attention. Either way I think you need to work on giving him an immediate consequence for this behaviour, delivered as calmly but firmly as possible. Time out is actually quite a good way to do this IME.

Does ds1 get any support? Is there a group for siblings of children with SEN in your area at all? Sounds like the poor lad is having a very rough time with J at the moment. That must be heartbreaking for all of you.

Time-out can work in lots of different ways. If it's used as a punishment it can inflame a situation even more, especially if the behaviour isn't something the child can control in the first place - it's like a double punishment as far as they are concerned. I've found it more effective to say "We need a little time to calm down" or something but avoid reprimand - we discuss rights and wrongs later - and that way J is less likely to feel like he's in trouble for what he's done. He doesn't understand consequence either and rarely learns from past experience, but that's the way he is so I have to deal with each situation as it arises and not expect it not to happen again.

If your J likes sitting on the stairs then maybe you could use that to your advantage if you remove the punishment element. If taking him out of the problem situation and distracting him with a book or whatever helps, then try it.

Hope the CPN can help. All I can suggest in the meantime is to avoid looking too far ahead for solutions, keep it in the here and now and see how you go.

My ds is only mildly autistic and yet he seems to have problems with understanding about hitting. The only thing that worked with us for awhile was putting him out of the room as he hates that although he will kick the door (doesn't matter at the moment as we are renovating) although whether he relates that to punishment or not is difficult to say.

I am sick to death of telling him to stop hitting/pinching/dragging dd. Fortunately no damage apart from bruises on her arm and its often just something totally innocuous that she's said. Sorry not really helping am I.

I tend to find that I try and avoid situations and ask other people to stay away from him - he is much better with older kids who seem more gentle.

Hope things get better soon.