attachement disorder or not???

[MissTired]

ive name changed as id prefer to not always be linked to the things im describing though i may change my mind and say who i am later im not sure!! i dont come on here often anyway so i am sure noone will care!!

my ds is 4.7 with autim, he also has dyspraxia, "likely adhd but we wont diagnose it til hes 5", and the camhs nurse says she thinks attachment disorder too.

i know my ds does have some attachment issues but everything i read about attachment disorder doesnt fit our situation or my ds as such though i can see kind of links so hoping someone might tell me either they think although he has attachment issues they dont sound the same as attachment disorder, or maybe ds fits a different type of attachment disorder or something. its really not about the label, i just worry about a possible label that implies things that arent right if that makes sense.

so ds is very typical autism ie not seeing others point of view etc etc and he has a diagnosis of autism which i totally do not doubt and noone is saying he doesnt have it just adding the attachment disorder to it if you know what i mean!!

ive always been a good mum and neer neglectful of my ds, far from it ive often been rather clingy in a way with him due to what happened when he was small. ds's father was violent and then when ds was born he was violent to him too. i left him when ds was 6 months so ds does not have any memory i believe of what his father did to him and he has never been in care or anything like that hes always lived with me and i have always been rather protective of him and not easily trusted people with him due to the fact i guess i you can trust anyone with your child it should be their own father. ds is a lovely boy but either loves me or hates me its always the extremes and he is very clingy and gets jealous when anyone speaks to me. now on one hand is this just a combination of autism and adhd?? or is it attachment type thing?? all the things i have looked at about attachment are about children not being able to form a secure attachment (ie in and out of care system etc) not having too secure a one!? i did loads on this at uni years ago but thats all textbook stuff and i dont want to get all my books out and my uni head back on as i just want to deal with this as a mum if that makes sense plus i get down as cant do things with my uni stuff and have a job etc due to ds so kind of blocking out the uni stuff feels better, though im sure there are things about building a very secure attachment not being good???? or am i wrong??

can anyone tell me their views on this?? please forgive me for namechanging but i just dont want to forever be linked with "the one who's ex was violent and she was too protective and gave her ds more problems" etc etc as it seems a lot of rl people think of me always as "her who has an autistic ds you know who's ex hit her baby" or maybe im just paranoid!

thanks for your reply tribunalgoer, yeah the nurse knows all history and i kind of worry that this is a jumping to conclusions type thing. i was very depressed at about the time i left ds's father and was on antidepressants but always did verything needed for ds and have always been very loving and everyone says that ive always been so devoted to him even when i was so depressed i didnt want to get up in the morning i was completely different with ds and a doting mum who did what he needed and more! im definate that there is autism there as so many things that are definateloy very autism ds has and he fits it down to a t whereas attachment disorder he fits a few bits but mostly those that are very autism like the ones that arent i dont think he fits at all but i dunno if im just in denial!!?? ive always been open with professionals about the past as always worried it would show up somewhere on notes as ds's parent abused him and people would think bad of me or my partner now without knowing the facts and that it was ds's father but now im wondering if i should have been so honest i dunno what to do or what to think anymore!

do you think its possible tribunalgoer to get attachment issues from a too clingy mum rather than the opposite??

well i struggled to let him go with anyone when he was younger but now he is 4.7 and has been at preschool for 1yr 6 months and on the whole is happy enough to be left there, odd occasions of him not wanting to be left but i think just the amount normal kids would, a few days in a row every 6 months or so!? he gets very jealous and controlling if i try to talk to my dp or on the phone etc but isnt that just his developmental age - ie hes 4.7 but more like 3 in development etc and also a bit of the adhd type aspect to his personality and also the autism side of not seeing other peoples points of view, taking turns etc?? does this sound like attachment problems?? surely if he had attachment problems he wouldnt want to be left?? or not care who is with him i dunno it just seems an odd idea when i dont feel he has any of the signs really except those that also fit autism

surely there is no need to put another label on ds especially if it oesnt fit!? but then this nurse seems on other things to really know her stuff which is whats had me so unsure!

From my experience with Ds1, who has ADHD and Autism, I honestly thought my clingy limpet mother behavior had given him an attachment disorder. I told my CAMHS nurse my fears and she looked appropriately bored and said "I've seen you with your children, Ms colditz, so unless you're locking him in a cupboard when you get home whilst treating his brother entirely normally, then I'd go with the diagnosis and say it's Autism."

Basically, it presents a bit like an attachment disorder because it's hard for them to show attachment - but that doesn't mean they don't feel it.

DD1 was seen by a specialist in attachment disorder on her first CAMHS appointment and this guy was convinced that it was the root of her issues. It took several months of appointments and me casting doubt on the attachment issue before she eventually received a diagnosis of AS. I guess the two can appear to be very similar.

thanks al1son and colditz i feel much better now about it all, i was a clingy mum when ds was small but i think any mum would be given what we had been through! now i cant wait for him to go to preschool!!! he starts at a special school in september and im only anxious abou it as im not sure how he will cope, im not being clingy i cant wait for him to go

i am desparately seeking help and advice for my little boy age 9. At present my little boy is in so much difficulty and at present has been diagnosed with having Attachment Disorder by CAHMS. I am most definetly not happy with this diagnoses as like many parents i have researched quite a lot on the disorder and my son just does not fit the criteria for this disorder. I shall give you a little more detail of my sons story.
During early pregnancy i had an operation to remove an ovarian cyst, a pregnancy test was not administerd so the surgeons and myself did not know i was pregnant. the birth was also very traumatic as i was in labour for an awfully long time resulting in baby opening his bowels and consuming his waste causing him distress which resulted in an emergency ceasarean section.
he was thriving as a baby, very alert, developed normally, was very quite forward with motor skills i'e walking, talking etc......
It was when he was nearly 3 years old i started noticing a few things that was not quite right. He would line up his toy cars and if one was to be knocked out of place or moved from where he had put it he would become outraged resulting in headbanging episodes. He had an enjoyment of collecting stones until he found his real love which is robots, he adores them and still collects them to this day and has over 50 of them as this is all he ever asks for as presents. When he started nursery it became extremely stressful as everyday the teacher would call me to say that he was distructive in nursery and found it hard to play with the other children. He would often make friends but not keep them for long as he would only end up hurting them.

I eventually enterd him into mainstream nursery when he was 4 only to be confronted with the same problems. He had no attention span, would find it hard to engage with the rest of the children and eventually i took him out of the nursery as it became too stressful and i felt that the other parents were not happy. I had sought advice from my health visitor who then tried to offer parenting strategies of which i was already following as i am a very hands on mum and am always attentive to my childrens needs.
As he became older it got harder and harder to do normal everyday things as he would 'perform' on a normal shopping trip or even just going to visit family.
This all then prompted me to seek medical advice where i was referred to Dr Rabb at the child development clinic at heartlands hospital. It was here that my son was diagnosed with ADHD. his problems started to escalate and eventually i found myself being socailly deprived as we were never asked to family gatherings. he didn't make friends and i was starting to become extemelly worried. He would become startled at certain noises, didnt like certain noises even the tone of his little brothers voice will get to him and that still happens to this present day. To cut an extremely long story short his life has become upsettingly unsettled and this is what has bought your name to my attention.

my son has been excluded from mainstream school permanently because of his behaviour, there have been CAF meetings a CRISP in place assessments by CAHMS EDUCATIONAL PSYCH involvment and i just don't seem to be getting anywhere.
The ATTACHMENT DISORDER diagnosis has been given by CAHMS and deep down and as being his mum i feel in my heart that they havent carried out a proper assessment even though it has taken months to even get to this point and being told that they are still working with my son and they don't think that the diagnosis will change.
The only thing i feel that they can diagnose my son with this disorder is because of the birth and pregnancy.
I believe that my son may not have ATTACHMENT DISORDER because
A) I am his biological mother, and he has a stepfather that has been with us since he was a tiny baby
B)he has never been in care at all, never abused, never neglected etc.....
C) has always had a normal family enviroment
D) Has been loved and is loved and always being told he is loved and he never refuses a cuddle or family group hug with his siblings
E) he was fine up until the age of 2 going on 3 years old
BEHAVIOUR INCLUDES

1)disruptive
2) angry outbursts sometimes results in smashing things and throwing things
3) misbehaves when we take him out socially
4) unable to take a joke with anybody so i am always walking on eggshells incase a person says something that Kian don't understand
5) controlling, always has to be in the lead when playing games and cannot take loosing a game
6)cannot make friends easily or sustain friendships
7) opens and closes the fridge door a number of times to make sure that the door is properly closed

This is a few to name. Attachment Disorder just does not seem to fit the bill with him and i am finding it extremely hard to take it in, i just don't see him to have this disorder as he is a loving caring little boy and wouldn't even take part in donkey rides on a recent family holiday as he said it is cruel and the donkeys must hurt.

he now attends a key centre where he has also had a fixed term exclusion for his behaviour and is only able to attend a couple of hours in the afternoon of which is for only 2 days a week.
I feel that his case has been treated unfairly and he is no longer having a full and proper education and i just don't know what to do for the best.

I am in desperate need of help and advice for the sake of my little boy.

Thankyou for taking the time to read, i could go on forever with my sons story.

sorry im all new to this i'm really not sure on how to use this thing at the moment

Thankyou for all your help, iv'e worked it out now lol Thankyou

Hi, I have a child with attachment disorder. I haven't time to read all the thread now and reply but will get back to it later and tell you what my little one is like.

sumum

That would be great, thankyou

Hi mistired and paganmummsy I have read the tread now and will give you my experience. Please bear in mind I am NO expert, I am a foster carer and have had lots of kids with attachment disorder and my own son has adhd with autisic traits.

You are right in that most kids with AD(attachment disorder) are or have been in care as it is the result of multiple carers, neglect or the needs of the baby not being met. However some babies can develop it if the bonding is interuppted significantly ie baby very ill in hospital for long time or mum so depressed that she can't respond to baby. In my personal experience this is much rarer than the being in care senerio or suffering sever neglect.

Children with attachment disorder can also be mildly or severly affected. it is a spectrum. there are differnt kinds of attachemnt also such as aviodent, ambivalent, disorganised and non-attachment.

Please google these for more info.

so to the behaviours. If it is mild the child may be scatty, disorganised not pay attention, be decieptful and think that adults are not there for them. This is my older fc.

My younger fc is much more affected, it has given him developmental delay. One of the overriding behaviour is his need to be in control and he trys many ways to always get his own way. some positive such as being friendly (over familiar) with new people, when this doesn't work it's sulks and tantrums.

he is very contrary. If he asked for an apple and I said yes he would change his mind and want a pear because he needs to feel in control all the time. This is becuase his previous life has been so out of control.

This control issue is part of many other behavoiurs. He like routine and get stressed when it is changed without notice. he constanly asks what we are doing even after he has been told (many times) he likes to open and close lids and doors (something predictable he can control), he will run aimlessly in circles or up and down (stimming?)

Is this starting to sound familar. mnay of the behaviours are very like asd with a bit of adhd and ocd thrown in.

Another thing he is unable to play by himself or with other children, he constantly seeks out adult attntion and will do anything to get attention, there is no imaginative play either.

So from my experience I can see that AD is very like the other disorders but with AD there has to have been something that has inturrupted bonding, something that has stopped the baby having it's needs met.

and it happens when they are a baby, once a baby has made an attachemnt to one primary care giver it can go on to make multiple attachments. if that first attachment doesn't happen than it's Ad

So from my limited experience i would say if things were good when your dc's were babies and thier needs were always met with love than it's inlikly to be AD. But obviously that is something only you know.

please remember I am no expert and sorry about my spelling.

Good luck and I hope you get some answers soon.

He

the last he should not be there

Wow its nice to hear from somebody with the experience of children with AD i havent met one yet, having reading what you have put it is pushing me more to the ASD. i have always met my sons needs, he was my first baby and a child that i was told i would never have after having fertility problems and ovarian cysts etc.... He was a happy baby and developed absolutely normal.

He is quite happy playing by himself, infact her prefers to be alone, he tries to interact with other children but it normally ends with the other kids teasing him and being nasty resulting in him loosing his temper and hitting out, he cant take a joke so im always stepping into convosations incase he doesnt understand and becomes frustrated and kicks off, the simple phrase 'you silly billy' will start him off as he literally thinks he is a silly billy.

I even breast fed my son for the first few weeks, there have been no breaks in the bonding process what so ever with me and my son, i wasnt depressed, i was coping, in fact i couldnt have been a better mum even if i had tried, this is why i am questioning the attachment disorder diagnosis.

I am glad it helps, AD does sound unlikly to me from what you say, you dc sounds more asd and adhd to me.
i hope you get the help you need.

i hope so too and thankyou for your help