pre-school review ... what a lot of c**p!! grrr....i left disheartened and angry!

[genieinabottle]

Hi, me back again with a long rant... (sorry in advance but need to vent to people who do understand)

I got there and teacher (who is also pre-school senco) was running late. I was the first parent but still had to wait 10 mins. Why? i found that out later on.

We sat down and surprise , surprise she starts telling me (like at last review) of the 'wonderful' progress B has made, in terms of imaginative play, creation, interaction...

When i start asking her to specify or give examples, again like last time it's all very vague. Such as he is seen talking to other children a lot more than before, and seen around the other children a lot more. Than it transpires that most of the interactions are still very much paralel-play and B copying what others are saying and doing (he has been doing this for over a year now).

The imagination is not really there (as far as we can see at home),and i feel the only real progress is that he takes a bit more interest in things around the nursery other than solely cars and trains, and his role-play has developed such as using the real stetoscope on another child chest to listen to their heart.
She went on about his creativity (which we see nothing of at home) and that he was making things such as a fire engine with bricks,... but she wasn't sure that it was a fire engine as B hadn't been able to tell her what it was when she asked him.

Then she turned the second page and all the rest was blank. Apparently she hadn't had time to write anything! this is a review about the whole term and the book is supposed to be filled in as the months go by. I suspect the fist page was filled in with haste during the 10 mins i was waiting. She said she finds it easier to talk about things from the top of her head rather than written notes. What is the point of this book then! She asked me to sign it, but i pointed out it was nearly all blank, she said she would fill it later.

I then questioned about whether his IEP should be changed in light of his 'progress' as it has stayed the same since last october! Apparently the IEP had been changed in May. I wasn't consulted, told and never got a copy. I asked to see it.
It was exactly the same targets as before: 1) listening for 2-3 key words instructions, 2) expanding/developing his play and imagination, getting him to participate to table activities, 3) social skills: turn-taking/ sharing.
The only difference was that this new IEP was very vague and looked half written in comparison to the last one.

I asked her about the lack of drawing/painting/creative things. B never brings anything from MS nursery; while i was waiting i checked his tray and scrap book, all empty apart from 2 poor pencil drawings with 'alien' written at the top.
She said they cannot get him to participate to table activities within group of children.
I said they manage this at the lang.unit he attends p/t. Reply was at the lang. unit they are experienced and work only with children like B and the ratio teacher /pupil is small.
I'm aware of this, but my main issue is that MS nursery doesn't even try with my son.

Then the last straw came! I asked teacher 'would i need to be here for meeting with school senco on friday, in case she had questions about the assessment and B's recent autism dx'.
Teacher had no clue what i was talking about! What assessment she said? what dx? She knew full well B had his asd assessment last week as i spoke to her about it on two occasions.
Also i had left a message in writing for her the following day, she hadn't seen it and my verbal message hasn't been passed on neither.
Her only reply was 'oh well at least you know now!'

I left totally disheartened.
B has no statement, and basically wil enter reception on school action + with an IEP not worth the paper it written on.
I pray for the school teacher and senco to be more pro-active and taking at least an interest in his education.
I wish B could stay at the lang.unit another year, as all of the actual little real progress he has made are due to their excellent work with him. But sadly it is for under 5s only.
The MS pre-school have really given me the impression that they couldn't care less about B.

Oh genie Could you apply for a statutory assessment yourself?

I could indeed. We (dh and I) have been pondering over the decision to apply for SA ourselves for many months.
But we decided to wait for the dx fisrt as the EP isn't on our side and has tried her best to make us 'see' that DS' sneeds aren't severe enough to warrant a statement.

Furthermore, asd team at Cahms who did the assessment last week, said they recommend plenty of 1:1 and small group work for DS when he starts school.
So far the school head, and senco whom we have met two seem full of promises and plans on how they will support DS.
So we have been thinking of giving them the benfit of the doubt and wait to see if school lives up to expectations, before going in demanding a SA before he has even started... it is so hard to make the right decision iyswim?

I mean we will apply for SA ourselves if we see school isn't doing enough and DS is sinking, but we feel like we ought to wait first as SENco and Head seemed to understand and made a seemingly good transistion plan for DS. They have said they will have some money allocated for DS to give some 1:1 from the pot they get from SEN panel.

I had the same problem with school, all this wonderful progress because they say he is making progress, with no evidence.

1. His difficulties were not listed as concerns and therefore no targets set to monitor progress.

1. He hadnt met any of the targets in any IEPS.

They cant just say they are making progress. It has to monitored against targets.

If targets are not being met, ask what they are basing this wonderful progress on.

Genie,

You will continue to be messed around in such a manner unless you now apply for the Statement yourself.

No statement as well means no place at the language unit. This is probably also why he cannot stay there.

You are truly your child's best - AND ONLY - advocate.

Re your comment:-

"But we decided to wait for the dx fisrt as the EP isn't on our side and has tried her best to make us 'see' that DS's needs aren't severe enough to warrant a statement".

No, no, no!!!. EPs are under pressure anyway not to statement (they are employed by the LEA after all) but that does not mean you cannot obtain one. They are relying on you to give up. Also if I had £1 for every time the needs were not deemed "severe enough" to warrant a Statement I'd be a quite wealthy woman!.

Re your other comment:-
"Furthermore, asd team at Cahms who did the assessment last week, said they recommend plenty of 1:1 and small group work for DS when he starts school"

You will only get that via a Statement.

Re this too:-
"So far the school head, and senco whom we have met two seem full of promises and plans on how they will support DS.
So we have been thinking of giving them the benefit of the doubt and wait to see if school lives up to expectations, before going in demanding a SA before he has even started... it is so hard to make the right decision iyswim?"

Do NOT give these people the benefit of the bloody doubt; he is not their child so have no personal interest in him. With 28-30 children in the class he could well go under in it.

Genie, my son is a bit older than yours (he starts secondary in Sept) but I've seen all this with other children before and the consequences of inaction. The schools end up failing these children.

PLEASE ACT NOW AND PUT THE REQUEST FOR A STATEMENT IN YOURSELVES!!!. Sorry to shout but I cannot stress this enough honestly. You must act.

Schools can promise much and do very little in return. Do NOT allow him to go into school and wait for the fallout to start re lessons and your DS because it will do so in time and quickly too. It will impact on your family life too to its detriment because you may well cop all his frustrations with the school day when he leaves school (because he will internalise all his worries whilst he is there).

Do not demand a statement from school, make the request yourselves NOW. You are far better off making the request as well because school cannot appeal if the LEA say no (you can) and schools can also sit on such applications for months.

If the LEA refuse to assess (which they could well do) you must appeal and seek advice on both here and via IPSEA.

Its bloody daunting yes but if you apply now you and your DS will thank yourselves for doing so!. He has a chance and has every right to receive an education.

www.ipsea.org.uk There are model letters on there you can use.

Have to agree with Attila I'm afraid. The statement process DOES feel like the big guns but it is dressed like that by the LA. It really isn't a big deal.

The thing is, the statement process takes a minimum of 6 months, but if you challenge all stages up to 18 months. There is plenty of time whilst this is going on for the school and LA to prove themselves worthy and you can drop the process at any time.

It might 'feel' like you are showing your distrust of the school by doing it, but this is just propaganda to try to put parents off. It is your entitlement. And in any case, in 10 years these people won't remember your ds whilst you will be living with the dire consequences of their mistakes.

Don't wait! Apart from anything else, it is 'easier' to get one at a younger age because the school will have less evidence that they can fabricate. hth

Agree with Attilla and Star. Apply yourself. Gather as much evidence and support as you can.Get the camhs people to write. And the language unit.
We were told ds would not get a statement - but once he started school he went downhill due to neglect lack of support but we had to jump through all the hoops (proving that SA/SA+ were failing ds) all over again! Eventually I learnt to distrust the lea and employees (teachers, EPs) and ds got his statement and sn placement. (Ps - thanks Attila for your straight talking)

Thank you again for reading and replying to my post. As always i find your advice excellent.
DS had his 3rd 1h transition session at school this morning, to see him in there with all these children and only 2 adults is shaking my my confidence tbh.
I will post a bit about this later, ...have got to dash to pick him up from the lang.unit now.

DS went to school this morning for 1 h. This was his 3rd session.
Again he didn't want to stay in the actual classroom where all the tables were set up with activities.
He went outside to play bikes and on the slide.
He went in the hallway and stayed on the computer for the rst of the session.
There will be 30 children in the classroom with him, one teacher and a TA.
The teacher made a speech about the school golden rules :sharing, listening to instructions, being kind,...

And also about their expectations of what the children must be able to do in september : recognize their name, getting changed for PE with minimal help, going independantly to toilet (wiping and washing hands too),...all these things DS still struggles with, he has made some progress but still needs help in the form of frequent prompting, breaking instructions down for him, watching and making sure he doesn't wander off to do something else, reminding him and keeping him motivated,... and one big issues DS still refuses to participate to table activities with other children.
He is fine at the lang.unit because of the small ratio, with 2 or 3 other children and a teacher sitting there to help.
But at MS nursery with 5+ children around the table and a teacher supervising from a distance isn't so good.
One of the biggest issue is getting him interested and keeping him motivated to do and finish the activity.

I don't know how they will manage that unless he has a 1:1 during that time.
I am now seriously considering the statementing route because i have a lot of doubts that IEP and action+ will be enough.

He also has been a nightmare for an hour or so after his transition session. To me that indicates anxiety and stress... so god knows what he 'll be like when he has to stay there a whole day.
I'm now so very worrried.

Genie, please write that letter. In fact, give me your full name, his full name, address and a couple of details, and I'd write the damn thing for you!!!!!!!!

Hi Genie,

I can only second what Lougle said. I am more than happy to help further as well.

I can tell you now that the IEP and SA plus won't be enough to get his additional needs met.

You need to get that request in for the Statement to the LEA asap. You have no other option but to do this and now.

He would not have the Statement in place for Sept but by writing now you will have the wheels set in motion and hopefully it would be in place for December 2010/January 2011.

It is scary yes but no-one in school will be as good an advocate as you are for him. You are truly his best and only advocate.

taint scary. Us people in your computer will help!

The whole statementing process can seem scary (sorry should have put that bit in) but would be glad to hand hold. You have us computer IT crowd peeps to help you!!.

Thank you . I will write the letter. I had drawn up a rough copy a couple of months ago. I will revise it and add it it.
I will send it this time.

At this point , should the letter be very detailled, with copies of professionals reports and assessments or should it simply highlight all od DS' difficulties with providing too much evidence?

Thanks.

Genie, I can sympathise greatly with you, my ds's preschool is terrible, very similar to what you described really.

They say is is doing "fine", they in a way contradict everything i say and due to this no offical dx has been made....everything points to my ds being ASD apart from them saying he is sociable in preschool.

I agree with everyone else write that letter.

Hi Genie,

The initial request letter does not have to be very detailed at this stage. IPSEA's website has model letters you can use for the initial request (just adapt it to your needs). www.ipsea.org.uk

If the LEA agree to assess they will ask the various people involved with your DS for reports.

Always seek independent advice too from organisations like IPSEA, SOS;SEN and ACE to name but three. All are fully independent unlike something like Parent Partnership.

Ok, thanks Attila.
Will crack on with it.

well I've been pipped to the post with the good advice, so can I just say I am disgusted by the pre-school, they sound bone idle- at this stage they should have a detailed list of EYFS goals and go down them showing you what stage your DS is at.

anyway - is there a language unit for over 5s? if so might be worth phoning up and seeing what the usual procedure is for getting places (bound to involve statementing etc anyway but...)

at the nursery, you need to get a statement sorted ASAP, how old is your ds (when is he 5)? legally your son does not have to attend school until a term after his 5th birthday so you have the option of home schooling or keep him in nursery (but not this nursery) until his statement comes through.

Dd2 is also starting school in september, she has similar problems to you ds but maybe not as severe, she is going into MS with a full time 1:1 and statemented, theres no way i would be putting her into ms without a 1:1 and if we hadn't have got the statement she would have been staying at nursery for a year (or home schooled).

Not all language units and sn schools require a statement (so i have been told) so it may be worth talking to the speech and language unit.

Marne, DS isn't severe. Although his dx is autism , he is HFA.
His language delays/disorder is still significant but he is quite verbal now, (biggest issue is with answering questions, and to and fro conversations, he still struggles a lot).

Salt who did part of asd assessement summed it up well in a simple way: DS becomes lost after only 2 verbal exchanges in a simple conversation.

But tbh, when someone tries and takes the time to explain things to DS appropriately, he is more likely to comply.
The language unit know DS very well, they know how to get him to participate and how best to communicate with him. They always try and 'push' him to achieve his best.
The MS nursery leaves him to do his own things 9 times out of time, if he says no to an activity , they don't try.

Typical example again this afternoon, went over there to pick up DD (24 m), there she was right in the middle of a group dancing to a nursery rhyme and following nicely the instructions.
DS (4.7y old) was half hidden in a corner behind a big white board, alone, making lines with some oversize dominoes.

I suspect that is what it is like in there for him nearly all the time! They leave him to it.
Unless of course the EP or area SENco is visiting, then they can't do enough to draw him out and he has the ability to respond very well to people who understand him and try.

DD is NT ... forgot to mention.

Sorry, i didn't mean to use the word severe, i just ment that dd2's communication skills are a little more advanced (she can answer questions and have small conversations) and she has good imaginitive play, other that that they are very similar, dd2 has a dx of ASD but we have been told she is HFA. Luckily both dd's nursery's (sn and ms) have been very helpful and know how to communicate with dd2. We applied for a statement in december for dd2 (neither of the nursery's had mentioned statementing, i got all my advice from mn).

Its not exceptable that the nursery are leaving him on his own to do things, it sounds like they don't have a clue about ASD and cant be bothered.

Do you have a portage worker? ours has been a great help advising the nursery on how to help dd2, they visit the nursery once a week to check that dd2 is getting her 1 hour of 1:1 and that they are working on her IEP.

Also dd2's sn nursery are always contacting her ms nursery and offering advice, could the speech and language unit do this?

I'm sorry i didn't mean to sound abrupt.
Yes i see what you mean now with the word 'severe' re: the imaginative play and language.
I thought you meant that DS had severe asd. ... i should read twice before answering.

It is true DS has language /communication issues that are still bordering on the severe side even with the progress he has made.
And his play skills and imagination for make-believe are nowhere near age appropriate.
He is still quite repetitive and plays in a concrete or sensory way when he plays alone.

EP suggested Portage last year, but the referal/request (unsure how it works) never happened. Pfff... so very typical! (same thing happened with the refral to saucepans to help with home behaviours)

Now we have been told that the school will be contacting the local SN school which has asd specialist teacher, and they will visit DS's school and advise.
Is it a similar thing to Portage?

Apparently every school has the rite to Outreach from a SN school/ASD school (well this is what dd2's future school told me), dd2 will be getting outreach from sn school which will take over from portage, they should advice on things like PEC'S, picture time tables, behaviour etc..

It sounds like the school will be far more understanding then the pre-school/nursery. The school can also apply for funding for a 1:1 if they feel he will need one (you need to keep on at them and prove he needs one) ,we have managed to do this (after me explaining the situation and crying all over the SENCO).

Dd2's statement only states 30 hours support which can be used as 1:1 and in small groups (this ment dd2 would not always have 1:1 like we wanted), the school have no said she will have full time 1:1 (her own TA) for as long as she needs it. My main concern with dd2 was her lack of sense of danger, i was worried she would get out of the school or hurt herself).