Oh! There's no reason why she SHOULDN'T go to a MAINSTREAM school....

[bsac15]

Help PLEASE!

My DD (3) is due to leave her chilminder in September (my choice) & start mainstream pre-school.

This is because her Paed Consultant said she could see no reason why DD couldn't go to mainstream school.

So - In my wisdom, I thought, lets start mainstream preschool, so she can get to know local kids better (currently attends specialist nursery out of town & a childminder).

My DD can't walk (hypotonia - low muscle tone - can crawl & climb), just started crusing furniture.
Can't speak, but can 'sign' basic needs.
Not much comprehesion - except food orientated items!

Am I mad to consider doing this?

Our local preschool has no experinec of SN, and the 'lovely' education dept have just told me that DD is only entitled to 7.5hr support (out of 18hr) - SNHV onto this!

I can feel the panic rising.

Any comments, critiscisms, tips, etc, etc, welcomed!

Well I guess that you'll need the paed on side to get a statement unless things change dramatically before she starts reception so proving him wrong now could get her support in place in time for that.

It may be a bit of a drastic way to prove your point though.

Could you send her just for the bit with the funded support and see how she gets on with that first?

What do the staff at the specialist nursery think? I would at least ask them to send a comprehensive description of her needs to the pre-school before she starts so they have a good picture of what they need to have in place for her.

Hi!
Thanks for your response.

SN Nursery - I rang them asap on receiving the decision. They informed me that local gov is performing 'budget-cuts' to SN funding.

They got straight on the phone, wrote a letter & hand delivered it within hours, & informed all relevant parties - on our behalf - that DD is classed as severe needs.

SN & mainstream nursery/ pre-school meet this friday.

Paed is great - but I find her very condesending.
"oh you don't need to worry about that Mummy".

Am I panicking too early?

Is it Early Years funding they are talking about the 7.5 hrs from? The area I am in has a habit of just offering 50% 1:1 to begin with (think LEA funded places will be offering 15hrs from Sept so would tie in). Your DD needs what she needs regardless of cuts, if they get places to agree 7.5hrs it is easier for them but you are best placed to know how much support she needs to keep her safe and allow her to participate.

I don't think all Paed's realise the maze that is getting SN support, and if your DD does get all she needs then yes MS could work but it unfortunately sometimes takes a lot of work to get in place.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on it and have some supportive professionals on board.

glad to hear specialist nursery is onside - would she still be going there as well as pre-school. I think it's never too early to worry about SEN/support/statementing, as unfortunately the system can take so long.... are you particularly keen on the pre-school, just wondering if a m/s nursery that has more experience of kids with SN might be better at sorting out support etc.

Ta very much for your support.

I don't understand the systems we now have to deal with.

I don't have the time to do lots of internet research.

Thx.

TC
We do have another local pre-school with more experience, but i didn't 'feel' comfortable (can't explain why though, just din't).

System taking so long........... Oh! I have a arm length list of complaints that I've made due to be being 'overlooked', missed off waiting lists, appt cancelled not rebooked, referrals gone missing, etc.

I suppose my main problem is I am running out of energy.
(My DH can't cope & leaves it all to me).

When we found out DD was to labelled SN, we knew it would be hard, but it's such a struggle & we are lucky that she doesn't appear to have any medical condition!

Again, Thanks for your support (& listening to me rant!).
xxx

Dd2 started MS nursery when she was non-verbal (she has no mobility problems) but she also attends a sn nursery 2 mornings a week, MS has changed her so much, she is now verbal and has started trying to talk to other children. I would say 'give it a go' ,you can always pull her out if it goes tits up. I have always found the places that have no experience of SN's are better as they will try hard to prove they can look after your child. Dd2's nursery have been brilliant, they have lernt to use PECS and now use timetables for all the children, she has a 1:1 who is great (she has no experience of SN before dd2).

Bsac15, I think it very much depends on the individual child. DD1 is verbal, mobile, etc. But she is affected in all areas (so speech delay, gross motor delay, fine motor delay, etc.)

DD1 has attended a MS preschool. I would say that they have coped well with the physical side of things well. They can cope with helping her open yoghurt pots, or watching that she doesn't stumble and fall (she has full 1:1). Also, they can deal with supervising her closely when going to the toilet.

What they have not coped so well with, is understanding that DD1 really can't comprehend as much as appears. They haven't found it easy to deal with the sensory issues she has. They haven't got the training to deal with her behavioural meltdowns, or to consistently implement the strategies that OT/Portage have suggested.

DD1 will go to a SN school in September. I wish I had put her in a SN nursery. THe currrent preschool have 'contained her' and cared for her, with great dedication. But they just don't have the skill to actually develop her.

Ds went to an ordinary pre-school and had a fab time. But he had full-time support through the grant. They used up the whole year's allowance in a term and a half though - so that would be the 50% mentioned I suppose.
They were absolutely definite that he wouldn't have coped without the 1:1. (Not walking / crawling / talking. Normal "busy" environment.)
By the end of that time though he had a statement and a place at a special school so the pre-school didn't have to apply for more funding.
They were completely ready and happy to do this though if we decided that he should stay there and had already done some of the groundwork to prepare the people in charge of the purse strings for the application.

DS2 has been in MS nursery with full time support (80% awarded through his statement) this year and we're more than happy for him to stay on for reception, which is in the same area. I would feel completely differently if it wasn't for his fabulous 1:1, though, who he had through his 2 year pilot place and will also have next year. She's done so much to make everything accessible for him.

Oh yes, I forgot to say that DD1 has been at preschool since June 2008, and has had full 1:1 Support since September 2008 (we didn't know she had SN when she started). She didn't get her statement until January 2010.

What you are being told is simply not true, about funding not being available.

I would think the quickest way to 'find' this funding, would be to write a letter to the Local Authority Special Educational Needs team and outline your child's needs. Ask them to confirm how they intend the preschool to keep her safe for the 10.5 hours that she does not have additional support?

Additionally, it would be wise to apply to the LA for a Statutory Assessment of her Special Educational Needs.

Does your DD have safety needs? Does she run away, for e.g., or is she quite passive?

Hello.
DD is nearly 4 and has global developmental delay--she can speak but is hard to understand and can't really express herself. She also has various other issues requiring input from various therapists (OT, physio etc). She has a statement of SEN and has been attending mainstream nursery since she was 3 and has thrived with a combination of 1:1 experienced learning suport assistants and a nursery that fully understands what she needs.

However, she only gets this because I insisted she was assessed for a statement as soon as she started at her previous nursery. So don't delay, get a statement started immediately. I don't know where you live but if it's the UK you need to find out your local authority's education department website and get on it quick. You say you haven't time to do lots of research but this is a priority. Don't wait for nursery to do it for you or any other health professional, iun my experience they are way too slow and you need to crack on with a statement before everything stops for the summer.

Oh, and tell the Paed to use your proper name

Sorry, posted too soon. You have to be proactive with this. Your daughter won't thrive at nursery without the support she deserves.

Talk to othre parents in your area--where is the best mainstream nursery for children with SEN?

ds went to a ms nursery , for him being honest it was not right place for him he played had fun but did not learn anything or improve.We moved and atm ds is at sn nursery and it is fantastic 1-1 every child , trips swimming etc but it is not one run by the lea its run and 1-1 all funded by mencap though the over 3s us etheir free nursery hrs to top up

dd2 has cerebral palsy and has always been at mainstream (nursery and school) with support. she had a 1-1 support worker to help her with her standing frame/ walker/ wheelchair, and they learnt makaton too.

it's very rare to get f/t support from so little - the 7.5 hours sounds as though it is based on 3 sessions - my gues is that it will go up to 5 sessions when she is 4 (for her pre-school year) as that is the noraml entitlement ot education.

that was the pattern that dd2's funding support followed, although the nursery just had 1-1 with her for all sessions. they just couldn't get that bit back from the lea.

dd2 was statemented for yr r. it wasn't a problem tbh. we have always had brilliant support in mainstream, with fantastic 1-1's and keyworkers.

she had one year of dual placement because that particular lea only offered early years intervention at a particular special school site, but other than that has always been ms.

WoW!

Thank you for all your comments!

We had TAC today.

All healthcare & childcare professionals were in agreement that DD had severe complex needs and were supporting higher support hours.

I had invited MS pre-school to this meeting & I think it really opened their eyes!

They met with the SN nursery manager for a brief chat after & then went to visit SN nursery.

They really are 'green' to this though.
They thought they would have to purchase 'special' equipment (after listening to meeting) but SN manager put them on the right track!

My only concern was overhearing MS say they 'thought they were going to treat [DD] like everyother child', so we explained that they were going to!.

I got a bit upset when I looked at the Paed & asked if we were still looking at mainstream school..... of course!

Local policy not to statement before 4th birthday - but all agreed support must definitely be in place now to ensure correct assessment/ statement next year.

But SNHV & SN nursery both 'looked' at me, and after a brief discussion, they suggested that I start arranging visits to all SN & MS schools in the area.

I have cried alot today (and still am!) but I think my short term decision is now that DD2 is 3yr, I will, from Sept, increase SN nursery to 1.5 days (3 sessions) & MS will be 1 day (2 sessions) & DD3 (2) will attend same placements/sessions.

Thanks again for your support.

I'm another one with split placement - dd2 has very low muscle tone (non-walker) very little understandable speech but can understand simple conversation and can sign a bit.

She went to SN and mainstream pre-school. We got full-time help, then she has gone on to do a split school placement, 3 days SN, 2 days local primary.

We were always clear that the MS is for social reasons, the SN for pure specialist education.

We had a struggle to get the LEA to agree to the schooling but won with the help of both schools.

dd2 is now 8.

Well done getting the Mainstream to get involved early on. They will be unlikely to have had any experiences such as your dd, so will need plenty of handholding, but will look back on the experience as very inspirational if it all works out. I'd go and talk to the Heads of your targetted schools now too.

just as an aside - our ms primary had no great experience of sn, but dd2's two older siblings had attended and they always understood that we expected them to rise to the challenge. they exceeded our expectations, and are now an extremely popular choice for parents of sn children... they now have children with physical and learning disabilities of all severities, and the school has slowly become adapted to provide a suitable environment for children with VI as well. the LSA's that were employed to support dd2 keep getting headhunted by the special school down the road . they all have to start somewhere!

but have a good look around and visit lots of places. often ms schools are wary, but generally once they get to know the child and family their fears disappear.

bsac15

"Local policy not to statement before 4th birthday - but all agreed support must definitely be in place now to ensure correct assessment/ statement next year."

LAs are not allowed to implement "blanket policies", so that is rubbish!!!!!!!

If your DD needs a statement now, they need to do it now. Don't let them tell you she is too young - the law says a child can have a statement under the age of 2 years.

true - (are you hampshire by chance bsac?)

there should be no blanket policy, but dd2 has always been given full support (with cp) and wasn't statemented until yr r. nursery and pre school etc were all done on SA+ and additional needs early years funding direct from the LEA. same support, just administered differently, we still had OT/physio/ SLT provision (all went into nursery) and appropriate 1-1. staff were trained (makaton/ choking trg etc).

it's never been a problem for us personally. i'm aware that in some circs it is - but the provision was in place so we were happy to wait until the statement point the LEA suggested, there was no need to do otherwise.

We are Hants, but I wasn't told of a policy not to Statement before 4. DD1 happened to get her statement at 4.1, but that was pure co-incidence.

that's fab, i don't think it's a policy per se, but there seemed to be no real impetus to statement early for ms settings in our little corner.