Ds and his behaviour at school

[Bumblingbovine]

I haven't posted here before and I know that many parents on this board have children with more serious problems than ds but I didn't want to post this in behaviour. I kind of know the response I will get if I do and I am really starting to think this is not as much about mine and dh's parenting as I had thought.

Ds's (5.5 yrs old) behaviour has always been difficult, to manage, his childminder found him very difficult to cope with from toddlerhood to 3 years old, and his first nursery (3-4 years old) though lovely really struggled with him.

At home we did see many of the behaviours we are seeing now at school but a lot of these behaviours are much less prevalent at home now, although dh and I know ds very well so it is possible we have learned to manage him better and he is also possibly growing out of them.

The sort of behaviours I am talking about are

• Hurting other children (pushing, hitting,scratching) often (though not always) out of the blue and for no discernable reason.

• Screaming VERY loudly if he gets upset and something isn't as he wants it

• Hyperactive behaviour including a sort of flailing and flopping movement of his head and body which he often does when tired, anxious or sometimes just out of the blue. It is difficult to describe this behaviour it is is obviously a bit "strange" when you see it.

• Talking very loudly and constantly. He is pretty much the loudest child in any group

• Grabbing things (almost compulsively) one after the other - although this has most definitely improved at home I still see a bit of this mostly at drop off time

• His behaviour becomes more aggressive and hyperactive when he is in a big noisy environment, especially if it is an new one.

• He has hurt (scratched) members of staff - though this is much more at lunchtime where supervision is less and also less trained as most are lunchtime helpers rather than TAs IYSWIM

This behaviour is definitely worse around transition times. So at nursery he would get quite wild and aggressive and difficult to control at tidy up time for instance.

I get the impression that the school are puzzled by him because his behaviour can be fine but he is very unpredictable. We rearely go a whole day without some incident at school but will often have a calm morning or afternoon nowadays. In the early weeks he was hurting other children several times a day so this has improved

The school allocated 5 hours a week of TA time to ds. After the first 3-4 weeks of Ds hurting children constantly, particularly at carpet time in the morning. The school introduced some strategies for behaviour management. They were

1 - Ds is now met at a seperate entrance by a TA and given 10 mins of quiet 1:1 time before joining an already settled group at carpet time. Ds was finding the "scrum" at drop off time overwhelming and this has been woking very well all year as Ds's behaviour at carpet time has now improved dramticallly.

2 They introduced a home contact book to record major incidents which is good but is not always filled in. This is a bit of a problem as we have also been impementing a reward system at home based on the incindent book being empty morning and/or afternoon.

3 They introduced an "achievement" book where Ds could record all the things he was managing to do (not running through other children's toys etc) and to celebrate them

4 They introduced a new programme of social skills support teaching (called Ginger time) for all the children (though it was introduced because of ds, the teacher's view was that all children of this age could benefit from this)

5 - Ds is also seeing a play therpist once a week this term

However despite all this Ds is still definitely the "naughty boy" of the class. He isn't the only one but Dh and I have alrady had two sets of parents complain about ds to us and to the school.

I suppose what I am looking for is some advice as to whether we should be doing more? I am finding school pick-up and drop off difficult at the moment as although most people are friendly it is obvious what they are thinking!

Hi bumbling! The behaviours sound like your DS should be getting more support. Has the nursery or school suggested getting in any outside help or having an assessment done by a paediatrician?

I went through agonies over whether to get DS checked as he was labelled naughty/I was a bad parent etc. Really, I used to cry every day when I picked him up and heard what he'd been up to. TBH when he was dx with Aspergers it was a relief to know what was wrong and we could then help him and things have clamed down somewhat now we know what we're dealing with. I'm not saying your DS has autism BTW but I think it is often useful to get a check done to rule out any underlying health problem (e.g. glue ear or something) which could be causing problems.

I would also meet with the school and ask for more 1:1 support, as 5 hours is nothing and it sounds like your DS could do with more. Your DS needs to be learning, not just attending, so you could say to them that he needs more support to 'access the curriculum' At least they are trying hard with him, and they sound supportive. That's half the battle if your child is having difficulties.

Hoep that helps a little!

Thanks for the post theberkinsdame

His hearing was tested and he seems fine on that

I have asked the behavioural psychologist (who has observed him) if she thought he was on the spectrum somewhere.
She thought he wasn't as he makes good eye contact etc, can show empathy (sometimes anyway!) and isn't consistently behaving like this. He is very cuddly etc.

She seeems to think that he is having trouble integrating as he is an only child and that he is just a bit emotionally immature. I can see that this might be true but I'm not sure it is the whole picture.

It is so difficult because his behaviour is so much worse at school than at home and even there it is a quite inconsistent.

Sorry to sound a bit clueless but the school did ask for a Camhs assessment which took months to come through but the nurse who visited at home (dh was there not ), took 20 mins or so to observe DS at home and said he was fine and didn't warrant any other action.

Can I just get a private assessment done then? I suppose I assumed the school would know what procedures to go through to assess him but although they are very supportive it all seems a bit ramshackle and I don't have a clear idea of who does what really.

I know his class teacher is the SENCO and I think she does believe he has some sort of specil needs but that they are mild because he can manage sometimes quite well.

The main problem really is that when we go out and mix with our friends and family and at home he seems reasonably normal if a little highly strung sometimes so I'm not sure what someone assessing him an interview would be able to see.

You have my sympathies. For what its worth I don't think any of his additional needs are anything to do with your parenting. These types of problems you describe in your son are never due to parenting.

Would ask your GP to refer you to a developmental paediatrician as these people can diagnose (unlike the behavioural pysch). He needs proper assessment.

You have far more power than school ever would have in this regard and the GP can also get the ball rolling with regards to a referral. You may want to film your son at home to show the dev paed as well. I'd take no real notice of what the behavioural pysch said because this person was not actually very helpful.

Would not reuse the services of CAMHS as they treated you very poorly. A 20 minute home assessment is worse than useless frankly.

Is your child on the SEN register, on anything like School Action Plus?. Do you meet with the school on a regular basis to discuss his IEP (Individual Education Plan).
Five hours per week in terms of support does not amount actually to a great deal. At least the school are doing something to help your son currently but this may not be always the case by any means. They could and should be doing more. This is where the Statement comes in.

I would seek a diagnosis for him as this can open doors that may otherwise remain shut. I would also be considering writing to the LEA asap to request a Statement of special needs (you do not need a diagnosis). Applying for such a legally binding document now is far easier than waiting until he gets to the end of say Year 2 with the transition to Juniors (which could be very hard for him particularly if at that time he has no real support i.e a Statement behind him).

You are your child's best AND ONLY advocate.
Never forget that. You are truly best placed to fight his corner and you must do that primarily because no-one else will do so.

www.ipsea.org.uk are very good at the whole process with regards to Statementing.

I would definitely ask your GP to refer you to the child development pediatrician. He may or may not be on the spectrum - only a pediatrician can say so.

This is not down to bad parenting.

Good luck. We've all been there. There was no way I thought my DS had Aspergers. Because in real life Aspergers doesn't look like it sounds like in the books. It is perfectly possible to be on the spectrum and to make eye contact etc. It is not simple to diagnose.

Good luck.

Thanks Atilla and Indigo

I think I will try the GP for a referral. Ds isn't on a special needs register and the school don't have an IEP as such but they do have a plan of how to support him and improve his behaviour (the behavioural specialist has put together the plan - which includes most of what I have listed) and we meet regularly to discuss this.

DS has most definitely improved since the beginning of the year but his behaviour is still at a level that most parents would think is pretty bad really I think.

Thanks for the link Atilla I will take a look at it and speak to dh tonight about how we proceed.

Hi again, I agree with Atilla that only a paediatrician can tell you for sure and you have to get the referral - ask your GP or HV to refer you.

"I have asked the behavioural psychologist (who has observed him) if she thought he was on the spectrum somewhere.
She thought he wasn't as he makes good eye contact etc, can show empathy (sometimes anyway!) and isn't consistently behaving like this. He is very cuddly etc."

Hi Bumbling
Your ds sounds so like mine! He is currently awaiting ADOS test for suspected Aspergers. All children on the spectrum present differently and as Atilla says AS is hard to diagnose. It is better to try to get diagnosis earlier rather than later. My ds is now 10 and we have had years of being accused of bad parenting,other parents having a go at us and ds etc..
We were referred to social communication clinic and paed expected to give us diagnosis that day but ds does not present as expected hence further tests. It will be a relief to finally get dx as it will show we were not to blame for all his problems

Also, I may be in the minority, but I would be very wary about trying to manipulate his behaviour with sticker charts.

Read unconditional parenting for the full argument - but basically you don't want him to behave because he'll get a sticker - you want him to behave (as well as he can) because he's a member of society...

And on a more practical level I just find rewards and punishments cause more temper tantrums then they stop.

"I have asked the behavioural psychologist (who has observed him) if she thought he was on the spectrum somewhere.
She thought he wasn't as he makes good eye contact etc, can show empathy (sometimes anyway!) and isn't consistently behaving like this. He is very cuddly etc."

This is a lot like my DS1, who also has a lot of similar difficulties at school. He is diagnosed with autism and probably ADHD (with emphasis on the H) and has a statement and pretty much full time 1:1 at school.

Your school sound like they're making some of the right noises, so it's a shame the EP was so dismissive. You definitely need to ask for a referral to someone genuinely knowledgeable.

Indigobell - no arguments from me! DS1 does need some degree of carrot and stick to help him appreciate boundaries he doesn't care about or understand (what do you mean that hurts? it's not hurting me!) but has never even trusted sticker charts and the like, anyhow and when we did try to do one for his bedtime behaviour, deliberately went out of his way to not get a sticker because that's how the oppositional beast on his shoulder ticks. We did start offering a new matchbox car for his collection as an incentive to work through his issues with the recent refurbishment of our regular supermarket and, of course, we can't get out of that one, now!

if you think that overstimulation might be one of his issues, you might want to read the out of sync child which deals with sensory processing disorder. i found it very useful when trying to understand my ds's issues, and it led me to ask for occupational therapy for him which has helped him a lot.

try not to let the the other parents get to you, although itis hard when they shout at you across the playground, and you just know they are looking down on you and your terrible terrible children... believe me i know.
you have to remember that they are ignorant because their little angels are NEVER naughty

Thanks for all the support/advice. I am now reading up on dispraxia, SDD etc. Dh and I have talked and I will have a word with ds's teacher this week to explain that I will be asking the GP for a referral and that they provide any reports of his behaviour and action plans etc. We have some but we don't always seem to get copies of things.

I wanted to take these to the GP as supporting evidence as ds's main problems seem to manifest at school at the moment rather than at home.

As to the sticker charts. I've never been a big fan but ds responds quite well to them and we are using it for violent/hurting behaviour only. I wouldn't bother with anything else like listening or doing as you are told etc as I think the school needs to deal with that and in any case I am focusing on the big issue for now.

I suppose I want to show the school that we are trying and are broadly supportive of them so that they don't dismiss this as just "bad parenting"

Ds still seems quite happy to go to and be in school and so far he has achieved his sticker rewards (we set the bar quite low!) so seems happy about it.

The reception teacher seems to like ds and is very supportive but I do know his behaviour severely challenges her sometimes and she has 15 years of experience in reception teaching so isn't new to this.

I am also aware though that if things don't improve all this could change very easily and ds could start disliking going to school a lot, particularly if he gets teaching staff who are less supportive/understanding.