Loving this Government.......

[wasuup3000]

www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=24515&start=0&#entry289528

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article7144811.ece

frightening, very frightening. Way too much crap in that article

As a university we bend over backwards to help students with any kind of disability including dyslexia. And do you know why? (apart from the obvious humanitarian aspect). Because it saves money! Organising extra exam time is a whole load cheaper than laying on a resit. Having people leave the university after 3 years of teaching without the qualifications they came to get is a massive waste of money. Pastoral support for students who have been ground down by unsupported disability takes resources away from elsewhere.

Oh, lovely

What is it with newspapers and their constant digs at "middle class parents" at the moment, anyhow? Are the Times and the Guardian et al seriously trying to alienate their own readership? The recent digs at ADHD in the press are irksome enough without this crap.

Guess I best get off the laptop and teach my 4 year old to hold a pen before I get blamed for his autism.

I can't see why anyone should be about those articles.

If they are going to 'clean up' the system to ensure that children get the right support i.e. a pupil who has never been taught how to hold a pen not being misdiagnosed as autistic - that's fine by me.

It would leave more money to channel to those that really do need help.

And we've all met our fair share of overpiad goons in the SN services.

Sorry - I think it's good.

My issue is that the article is looking at the percentage of children on SEN "registers" compared with other countries and suggesting that it can't be valid. Given the roughly 10% descrepancy quoted, to me, it is suggesting that almost 2/3 of these kids' special needs aren't valid. That's a bit steep.

And that final comment about using a pen/autism is a classic example of using an anecdote to suggest actual data.

The article also has me confused because I can't quite work out whether it's implying that it's going to be less or more complicated to get the help that children with SEN need in schools. Given the way the article started out (by appealing to readers' sense of righteous horror that children have all these conditions with names they've never heard of which can't possibly be valid), I'm suspecting the latter. What I gleaned is that the power that parents have to influence the education of our children with SEN is going to be reduced (so we can't get extra free tuition for our kids ) but the incentive isn't going to be given to schools to act responsibly and help them, either, because that just encourages schools to cheat and lie and manipulate exam results.

It's typically cynical Daily Mail politics (Even if it is being reported in the Times.)

Just posted this on another thread on same topic:

I htink that's a shockingly written article, with some crap quotes form people,

BUT

I do agree that sometimes the criteria need tightening up.

I'm talking about the extra time in exams end of the spectrum of SN, here btw (and by that I mean people who play the system to gain extra time, rather thanpeople who haveneeds that warrant the extra time)

I have a statemented dd, who is at SN school full time.

I also have a dsd who has AS, who sadly didn't recieve all the help she should have at school(crap school, even worse senco = not much help at all). thankfully she is receiving decent help at uni now.

My dss, on tthe other hand, went ot a brilliant school, who knew full well how to play the system. he (totally and utterly NT, with no difficulties at all) got extra time in his A levels for - wait for it - being left handed

he did not need it (although I am sure used it well - a lot of people would be grateful for the extra time!), and it just makes a mockery of the system, tbh.

Why do we have such a comparatively larger proportion of children unable to access education without support, to other countries.

Says something about the quality of the education if you ask me.

I have no doubt that if ds' needs were met without a statement he wouldn't need a statement. It goes without saying.

Doesn't quite add up does it.
Here we are supposedly with more SN children than other countries and yet some parents on here struggle to get the schools to acknowledge their children do actually have SNs.

Agree with you Star about quality of education.

Oh dear - I expect the next 80 posts will be from disgruntled teachers fed up with our attitude.

Ah well.

I think the reason is that this country does recognise disabilities and SEN ect better than other countries who still have archaic ideas in regard to this area. Therefore this country is not comparable to most of Europe in its understanding and recognition. Hence the figures being seemingly so extreme.

I think the prospect of a review of the Statementing system which will be combed through by a PM whose child had severe SN is something we should all be very excited about.

Perhaps someone will dig out the formal brief and start a new thread - then we won't get distracted by the provocative tone of this article.

My submission will probably be:

• teachers need to be empowered to recognise and understand the evidence of sensory and processing differences shown by most non-NT children. Teachers are intelligent people and should be allowed to lead on these issues as they are the only professionals who spend enough time with the child to really get to know them.

I expect others will point out that you cannot simultaneously do Statementing paperwork and play with your child. So somehow the statementing process must be simplified.

""By wasuup3000 Wed 09-Jun-10 22:28:59
I think the reason is that this country does recognise disabilities and SEN ect better than other countries who still have archaic ideas in regard to this area. Therefore this country is not comparable to most of Europe in its understanding and recognition. Hence the figures being seemingly so extreme.""

I worked in Sicily for almost a year, (not in education) but saw a large number of children with disabilities like CP, DS not in school, just in their street/sat in open doorways waiting. A little boy with DS played football with NT kids and apart from the obvious signs of DS he was right up there.

Tho also elderly / infirm weren't seen out and about and no easy access in shops / street kerbs etc, buses with large steps.

This article irks me because as usual it's all about the middle class. I agree actually that there is a kind of middle class parent who is very good at working the system and have no scruples in doing this. You only have to look at threads on here about the 11+ to see that.

However, the real scandal of children with SEN is that SEN are closely correlated with other indices of social deprivation such as low income, poor housing, poor health, lack of access to social and cultural facilities (actually this is true of SN too). It is not only children with SN who are on the SEN register -- we overlook that on this board because SN children are what this board's about. There are huge numbers of children with delayed speech, behavioural problems and other kinds of educational deficits who have those issues because of their background, and schools have to help those children too. None of those things will get a child a statement but it cannot be denied they do have special educational needs, and do need extra help. The irony, of course, is that these are precisely the ones who do not have parents able to get that help for them.

As to why there are more children with SEN in this country, I think it is highly likely that contrary to much of the opinion on this board there is a relatively much more developed awareness of disability and educational deficit here than elsewhere, and that though the system is awful in lots of ways it is better than no system at all, which is the case elsewhere. Because we are constantly thinking of the ways the system fails our children, it may seem perverse to think of the ways in which it works well -- but it does in some ways, and we should give credit for that.

A French friend of mine said that the thing that really, really struck her when she first came to live here was the amazing level of accessibility and openness generally about all kinds of disability here compared to france.

I'm sorry to say Lingle that I think it's naive to think David Cameron will have any involvement with the reform of the SEN system. If it has the involvement of a cabinet minister, it will be Michael Gove who is a swivel-eyed ideologue.

Michael Gove

OK, I'll stop being childish, now!

ouryve!

They don't just look the same, they sound the same. I couldn't stop laughing the first time I saw Michael Gove on QT because the resemblance was uncanny (and I'd had a glass of wine!)

Hmm, so we're in situation where we are saying:

'We have a better system for supporting SEN in this country, but that is costing the tax payer more than in other coutries, so let's go back to their system'?

And I think I have pointed out already, that I have a child with severe ASD, and getting him first a useless statement and then taking the Local Authority to tribunal is almost certainly something I couldn't have done if I wasn't 'middle class', with the ability to figure out an impossibly complex system and the ability to make the sacrafices required to do so.

Even still, it has nearly killed me. I just don't understand where parents without children with real SN can do it. IME it really isn't possibly unless your child is REALLY being failed. They you have a teeny tiny bit of ammunition to fire, but they will still fire back, and hard.

Where do these middle class parents with easy paths live, and can I afford a house in their borough?

it's all about the costs involved, I think, Star.

The middle class pushy parent stereotypes are asking for things that cost little - extra time in exams, use of computer in exam, rather than handwritten, etc

drop mint he ocean to the LEA - the same old "we can help 100 children at this level, or 1 child on an ABA programme" argument, I think.

THe level you and I have been fighting for over this last year, is a vety high cost, as we both know. and it goes on for years - once awarded, it is difficult for the LEA to withdraw (they can make a fuss, but Tribunal usually rule on not upsetting status quo unless significant changes have come about), and so the cost rolls on for years (and, being cynical about this, it also then signals the level of need to the next council departemnt after education - health and social care? - hard ofr them to argue residentil placement not necesary, for eg, if child has been on 1-2-1 education for X years. easier to argue if child has been failing quietly in MS)

Oh I see what you mean. So if I were to say 'oi you, give my ds more time in his exam or else I'll quote your own policy documents at you and threaten my MP', they'll do it because it costs a lot less in time and money to just agree.