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Moodiness and Asps traits

9 replies

Solo2 · 03/06/2010 10:16

DS2 aged 9 has many Asperger's traits but falls just under a full diagnosis (having been assessed 3 times over the yrs). I'm writing on this forum ,as I hope someone recognises this behavious and can advise me.

DS2 is becoming v difficult to live with - rude and grumpy most of the day but absolutely hypermanic in the evenings - when he flits between hysterical giggling during play with his twin brother or tears and angry outbursts if he's not fully in control of the game.

Like a stereotypical teenager - although he's only 9 - he moans and complains eg if we're out on a family trip, he's 'bored'/ 'tired' and all he wants to do is go home and be on his PC.

His current obsession - and he's had many in his life so far - is soap operas - which I've never watched - and he memorises cast lists and episodes and also invents his own soap opera. He also continues to obsess about old series of Dr Who. DS1 and i are v frustrated by his need to go on and on all the time about his latest interest or his difficulty diverging from an interest.

I'm finding that it's actually becoming harder to tolerate his differences and that I'm asking his twin more and more to accomodate DS2's quirks, need to be in control, obsessive behaviours etc. DS1 can also have his moody and rude moments but the difference is that he 'gets' that his behaviour is not OK and is suitably contrite.

DS2 keeps going, way beyond when most neurotypical children would stop - but then becomes exceedingly upset and worried, when he finally sees how annoyed I am. The kind of behaviours include inappropriate talk about sex/ poo etc in a loud voice, in the garden in hearing distance of neighbours, swearing at me, although this also includes phrases he's heard on TV or his PC but also awful, awful language like, "You f*ing bitch!" to me.

On the one hand, I'm constantly pulling him up for his inappropriate behaviour and on the other hand, then feeling v v guilty when he gets obsessively worried and upset and tearful, when I tell him off - especially if I tell him I might tell his school teacher or someone we know what he's said or done. He's extremely good and polite and well-behaved at school and socially. So I'm still unable to be sure whether he's actually Asps or not.

He suffers from episodes of migraine - although I'm slightly unconvinced that this is really the cause of his early morning headaches. His behaviour is worse when he's feeling unwell, when he's tired/ stressed, when his routine is disrupted.

So I suppose my end question is - to what extent to I make allowances for him, given his Asps traits and completely obsessive worrying, when he gets that he's been misbehaved/ inappropriate - and to what extent do I simply treat both twins the same, despite their differences and clamp down harder on the rudeness and moodiness? (PS I'm a single mum)

OP posts:
claw3 · 03/06/2010 10:56

Morning Solo, you say your ds has been assessed 3 times, by whom and how?

In my house we have 3 rules and there is zero tolerance, no hitting, no swearing, no name calling. This applies to all of my children (and adults!)regardless of disabilities.

But that is not to say, you cant help to try and avoid it escalating to the above. For example its ok to get angry, but we dont swear, hit etc we do X and i show ds what i want him to do instead.

lingle · 03/06/2010 11:01

I was just reading "The Child with Special Needs" this morning (Greenspan) and it was talking about how kids can seem to regress at this age because they're becoming more self-aware.
Only scanned as my boy's just 4!
Have you got it? It was in the chapter on Stage IV - logical thinking.

Ampersand44 · 03/06/2010 11:26

Claw - but what do you actually do when these things happen? We have told and told DS what is and isn't appropriate, tried rewards, tried sanctions but nothing seems to touch him. Explained the anger is ok, but not the hitting, spitting etc. If he has gone too far there is no getting through to him, after the event he doesn't seem to know what we are talking about. At a loss what to try next ... and he knows we are at a loss which makes things even worse. Recently after he had hurt a friend he said to her mum 'my mum has tried for two years to stop me hurting people when I am angry and she can't do it' - broke my heart.

claw3 · 03/06/2010 12:18

Amper, personally i think its more about trying to prevent it from happening in the first place, well thats the theory anyhow!

For example i know that if my older boys try to wrestle with ds (he always seeks this out) but then cant tolerate and gets aggressive. So he is only allowed to wrestle with an adult.

or he gets upset when a game has to finish. Before we start the game, we agree how many games we will play or set a timer so he knows when it will finish.

That kind of thing, i suppose preparing him before hand for what will happen or what he can expect to happen.

Ds is quite passive now, but he has had his moments, hitting his older brothers with objects and even on one occasion his brother needing stitches after having an alarm clock thrown at him.

For ds talking, telling, explaining is a waste of time, he just doesnt 'get it' half the time without a demonstration. Its about showing.

For example IF he resorts to hitting his brother, he has to sit on the super nanny step! I take him by the hand and put him on the step. He doesnt understand why he is sitting there, but he does understand that i am not happy.

After i show him the written rules and show him what i want him to do when he feels angry and feels like hitting someone. He has a punching pillow and i literally show him with screaming and all!

When i see the signs that he is getting angry, we go and start hitting his punching pillow. It usually results in us both giggling. I do things like pretend to hurt my hand or miss the pillow etc, etc.

Very Mary Poppins, i know, but it works for us at the moment anyhow!

Ampersand44 · 03/06/2010 16:48

Thanks, Mary Poppins just what I need, perhaps a bit of Nanny McPhee thrown in for good measure. Will try written rules/visual symbol and a pillow. Can't do 'naughty step' as he either runs away or uses it as an excuse for physical tussle. I also need to be more consistent in preparing beforehand - it just gets so exhausting doesn't it!
Think it needs to be visual all the way now - had funny but shocking example of this when we arrived at our small northern station to get the train to London for half term visit and he asked 'where do we go down?'. I had been so careful to prepare him for the London underground experience but missed the fact that he thought we were going underground all the way No wonder he loses it frequently.

claw3 · 03/06/2010 17:52

Amper, consistence is a must, but it is bloody hard work and we are human after all! Its hard to think ahead and second guess ever possibility, all you can do, is the best you can.

Ds doesnt actually sit on the step, he usually hangs upside down or rolls on the floor, but as long as he stays in the vicinity of where i have put him and doesnt just get up and walk away, thats good enough for me! He used to get up and walk away, then i would put him in his room and shut the door.

I try to pick my battles, trying to deal with too many behaviours all at once is overwhelming.

Ds could argue for England and i find the trying to reason or explain is pointless.

I got a good book the other day its called 'when my worries get too big' a book for children who live with anxiety, cost about £5. Its a bit like a social story to read with your child and helps a child to rate feelings 1-5, 1 being relaxed and how it feels etc, 5 feeling like screaming and hitting someone and what kinds of things make you feel that way and bits for the child to fill in etc. The techniques to bring your worries back down to 1 again. Its like an action plan of what to do when you reach 5 and we have the pillow with us to practise (the pillow isnt one of the techniques, we added that)

How old is your ds?

Ampersand44 · 03/06/2010 18:48

He's 8, we have 'working diagnosis' of AS - long story, but due full assessment and formal DX by Sept apparently. Just been accepted for Stat Assess (whispers that bit because feel so bad for all the s**t you and others going through over this). Due at CAMHS next week, Family Therapy by myself but apparently they think that's ok but as they have spent last year plus not wanting to get involved will be interesting to see if anything changes now assessments have to happen.
Will look for that book, sounds very helpful.
Solo - sorry if I am hijacking your thread, sounds like similar episodes though - we get lots of 'poo' talk and he will bare his bum at me too. And I certainly know what it is like being unsure where the boundaries are. Claw's list of zero-tolerance behaviours sounds a good place to start, might help us feel a bit more empowered!

claw3 · 03/06/2010 19:08

Amper, LA have just agreed to SA for ds, no need to whisper, good luck to anyone who doesnt have to fight within an inch of their life to get it!

Ds goes to CAMHS, because school had told them i was 'over anxious' mother and ds didnt have any problems, i had to pass the test first. But i have found once they had assessed me and got to know me a bit, they have been brilliant. Ds goes for weekly sessions, while i sit outside and wait. I now meet with them about once a month to discuss progress etc.

Yes sorry Solo, hope you come back and might find some of my nonsense helpful. I hope i havent come across as too pompous. I do struggle with lots of other stuff

TheArsenicCupCake · 03/06/2010 19:36

Not sure if any of what I have to say will help.. But I can tell you what we do.. I think if you can pick and mix
stratagies that work for you.. It might help... All our dc's will have different things that set them off or wl work for them..

For us.. Ds2 cannot tollerate play fighting, even though he wants to.. It ends in someone tears... So we go to judo .. It's structured, there are rules, small groups, great for balance and has helped with self control, the list goes on..

We do not play fight in the house..

Time to think.. Before it all kicks off, or when I need ds2 to listen.. I tell him and give him space and time .. I use hand signal to slow down and quiet down.

Then I give a short to the point instruction. One at a time.and then give the time for him to process it .

Ds doesn't know when I'm getting annoyed, he just doesn't see it.. So there he is doing what is making him happy, unaware of the chaos around him.. Then boom mum suddenly yells! Well what did he do? He has no idea that I was asking a hundred times before he didn't pick up on the steam coming out of my ears!
Then he wonders why he was yelled at.. It's unfair and scary and sudden... Boom one meltdown!
This was the hardest to figure out but the easiest to solve..
I tell him before I get any where near yelling.

" ds2 stop now please"..
Hand on shoulder.. " listen" " I need you to stop"

hope that makes sense

lots of praise .. Ds2 doesn't respond to punishment.. It just has no influence. .. So we ask him to stop.. Give time.. When calm explain.

Talking time this is hard we use hand signals again or shoulder touch to get him to pause or stop for turn taking.

None of this works all of the time and we have to modify it regularly.. But we tell him what we are going to do.

Hth a little bit.. There is loads more but those ate the basic things we do.

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