How do you build up a sensory profile for your child who does not seem to have many sensory needs?

[tiredmummyoftwo]

I was reading another thread here on MN and somebody said their child's stimming was dramatically reduced when all his sensory needs were adjusted (something alone this line). DS never has had much of a sensory issue, no rituals, no spinning etc. Both DH and I decided that he is undersensitive (Hanen, more than words) as at some point he never reacted towards pain (now screams the house down if he hurts himself). He also likes to go on the rollercoaster, jumping up and down, sliding etc. He has no problem with hoover, hairdryer or washing machine noise. He does not mind going to crowded places and oblivious to all the noises there. But what he is doing non-stop is talking to himself,sometimes just repeating what other people said to him, sometimes talking appropriately about what he is doing.

I guess what I am trying to say DS does not really have much sensory issues as far as we can tell, but so how do we stop his non-stop eecholalia (not all the time) or stimming (he does this whether it's a noisy place or quiet place)? He does stop when we say 'DS, no silly talking' then few seconds later starts again. As we are not in the UK and in a country where there are hardly any services for special needs, we can't find an OT or BIBIC to do sensory profile for DS. Any ideas for building up a sensory profile or how to stop DS talking to himself non-stop?

Thanks in advance.

The only way that I found effective was to study my son as if I were David Attenborough. I observed and made notes and tried things out. It took a long time.
You have to be able to isolate and identify exactly what it is that he's reacting to, and it takes time and patience, and a very open mind as to causes because some of the things that set him off were not things I was equipped to recognise as an NT such as scents, variations in taste and sounds I couldn't hear.
Likewise he has a very high pain threshold, but finds light touches unbearable, labels in clothing are unbearable.
I have no personal experience of echolalia, but my son used to monologue when small to rationalise things, to make a place for them in his understanding of how the world fitted together.

I like the sound of Goblinchild's approach (don't suppose she would come teach at DS2's school?)

The other mumsnetter's child may have been stimming because he experienced sensory distress - stimming as a way of blocking out an unpleasant sensation. Is your son doing the echolalia just when he is stressed, or mainly when he is stressed, or all the time or when he is excited, or even when he is peacefully playing?

It may be that he is getting real pleasure from the pitch, timbre and resonance of the phrases he uses. Perhaps you could try to figure this out with your David Attenborough hat on.

In DS's case it's non-stop, that's why we think it's stimming. It's not immediate echolalia, it's delayed, but it's not repeating TV or books, it's what people say to him when he is doing something. It is unlikely he is blocking out anything as he does it when he is playing at home more than outside. He is talking even when he is playing peacefully, but most of the time this is about what he is doing or singing nursery rhymes. When he is stressed or upset, he repeats the same sentence over and over. Lingle, you are right in that that DS seems to be getting real pleasure from the talking. He seems to be talking to himself all the time and repeats more of the negative things we tell him 'DS, don't do this, don't touch, don't hurt DD, don't throw' etc. He definitely does it when he is excited. Sometimes, it feels like he suddenly got a burst of language, but does not know how to use it.

Goblinchild, DS has recently been showing some problems with labeling of clothes, but can't really say it's sensory or not, as he only picks on the label of shirts (he does not like wearing shirts. again no sensory issues, just likes wearing T-shirts with different logo on). I find it so difficult to pin point anything because if something bothers him once, it does not seem to bother him next time. More than anything he becomes curious about whatever bothered him and tries to figure out how to get rid of it (like getting a scissors to cut the label off). A lot of time he also does it to get my reactions, like singing on top of his voice in a public place knowing it annoys me and I will tell him off. He definitely gets a kick from being told off. He likes doing things knowing he is being naughty and he is not supposed to. It's hard to figure out if it's a sensory need for being told off or just a 4 years old being naughty. David Attenborough hat tells me it is being done for pleasure or when he is bored. Just can't figure out what I can give to replace the pleasure.

PS: Lingle, thank you for suggesting Hanen more than words and talkability. They have given me lots of ideas to work on DS and DD (NT).

A sensory profile form gives lists of 'statements' which you score from 0-4, never to always, so 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%. Then the results are fed into a matrix & results given.

My son used to test the boundaries, mostly to check that the rule was the rule and hadn't changed. It was about defining his understanding of the world again, and he'd repeat infractions and then say 'If you do that again, X will have to go onto a high shelf' or whatever the known consequence for an action was.
It seemed to make him happier if I told him he was right. In other circumstances, he wanted to interact and didn't know how. So he'd do something to be noticed and spoken to, even if the response was a negative one. It still counted as communication in his eyes.
He's 15 now, able but still struggles in some situations. He's currently annoying his older sister by borrowing phrases that she uses because she is a fluent communicator and he isn't unless it's an area he's really confident about (art, history, physical geography you get the idea)
She wants to copyright expressions and phrases and can't.

uh actually she could if they weren't already but its not worth the hassle ;P

lou, where do I get this sensory profile form? There is one 'more than words', but does not really gives me any ideas apart from telling me he is undersensitive (the types of games he likes to play, reactions to pain until age 3.6). A lot of things about him changed since that age like food. The boy who only survived on juice, yogurt and milk, now eats everything we offer him. I understand that you can't develop sensory things later in life unless you are born with it.

Goblinchild, DS does exactly the same thing as your DS did to test the boundaries. He reacts the same way as 'if you do that again, X will happen', wish he would copy his little sister who is 3, but very advanced for her age . Funny how having a SN child make you look at things so differently. At some point we got worried about DD because she could do so many things that a normal 3 years old can't do. Rather than thinking DD is exceptionally bright, we were thinking more alone the line of aspergers, despite DD never showing even one symptom of autism. Paranoid!!!

not sure if this will help, but try
googling 'retained reflexes' - if any of the things mentioned sound familair, a sensory trained OT could offer advice on exercises to help -(not sure how you would manage this if you are not in uk, but htey could maybe advise by email etc?)

(i am not sure what stimming your ds does but know a boy who used to tap his hands a lot -greatly reduced after a few months of exercises for retained reflexes)

trouble is, what do we mean by stimming? I mean, we know how it looks from the outside, and the barriers it puts up, but if it's done for pleasure, is it possible that it's part of his learning pattern?

all part of your David Attenborough thinking, I guess .....

me again - have just taken a moment to look back over old threads of yours where we have spoken - what a long way he has come.

"Sometimes, it feels like he suddenly got a burst of language, but does not know how to use it."

He sounds to me more like he is playing with language - and playing with your reactions- than expressing a sensory preference. DS2 has bursts of doing this too - they do some phonics in nursery and he comes home saying "that's a c-c-c-c-cup!" most irritating. After a while I started to say "talk properly!" which he understood. Then one day he said "c-c-c-c-cup. talk properly! cup!"
most annoying!

but DS2 has always needed to play with the sound and timbre and pitch and accents within language until they became routine to him - only then would he knuckle down to understanding the meaning and use that part of language routinely.

DS2 always played with music too - is your DS musical?

Meanwhile, I'm wondering if you need to react less to the behaviour?

Yes, DS is going through the phase of telling himself 'no silly talking' when I look at him. It's funny how well he understands non-verbal gesture as one nod or one look from me he knows exactly what I am going to say.

DS loves to sing and dance, knows all the popular nursery rhymes, his toy piano is his fav toy at the moment, he has to take it with him everywhere we go. Like your DS2 he always play with the sound and timbre and pitch and even copying the accents. His learning style is different, he seems to get the expressive first before being able to do receptive.

His non-stop talking (can't really say it's echolalia as it is not being repeated in chunks or out of tv or books, but at the same time he is using whatever people say to him like after finishing a puzzle he would say 'that's a good boy'). He does look for my reactions when I am around, but he is doing it when he is on his own. This is why we are thinking it's verbal stimming, but he is definitely not doing that to block the world. He is very alert even when he is talking to himself and responses to things that is of interest to him, runs miles when I get the spelling cards out .

I dunno. DS2 takes after my side of the family and I used to repeat phrase after phrase to myself - I liked the mood of a particular phrase without necessarily understanding the meaning. It passed the time whilst waiting to go to sleep.

Being a girl, though, I kept it within my own head and no-one knew.

It's gone now. The only thing left is that I have a kind of record player in my head. I always have a tune in my head - in fact a tune is good - often it's a whole movement of a symphony, with all the correct harmonies (I can then pick them out for anyone needing it - my one musical talent). I can switch it off - but it soon starts up again without me having thought about it.

So - what I'm wondering is - it may be that all you will achieve by pushing this right now is to squeeze the monologue into his head. But if he has a "tape" in his head like me, it will just keep starting up again, he'll hear it, you won't.

Of course, I may be barking up the wrong tree and he and I may have no similarities whatsoever....!

Lingle, last night I was listening to DS talking to himself before falling a sleep. He does this like you to pass time whilst waiting to go to sleep but loudly. I realised he was actually having a conversation with DD using the same sentences we said to him during the day. So it was like ' DD if you do this, this will happen. DD don't touch this, DD do you want to paint now? How do you spell Fish?' Obviously he is not able to do this to DD directly, he can only say one sentence at a time, not back and forth. I thought the idea is to push the monologue into his head, so he does not stand out when he is with other people (at least that is what his ABA Consultant is telling us). He needs to be able to play quietly without talking to himself. I personally think because he is so delayed he is just going through the stages of talking to himself late. DD went through the phases of talking to herself at 2.

Lingle, last night was the first time DS could tell us what he did during the day (just few words) without being prompted.

Improvingslowly. thank you for your suggestion. Unfortunately, I can't access many sites as it's listed as prohibited material', but then even watching teletubbies videos on you tube is prohibited in UAE, I guess it's high time we go for a visit to the UK to buy or download some software so we can by-pass this stupid state control system.

"I realised he was actually having a conversation with DD using the same sentences we said to him during the day"

see what others think. to me, it sounds like he's processing what happened that day and, as you say, going through the talking to himself phase very late. In other words, the dialogue is part of his learning.

I would be quite wary of squashing this too much, and especially of using any negative disciplinary language. DS2 started being able to tell me what happened at school about 6 months ago. Now, if he says something that seems to be apropos of nothing (like suddenly singing a song or saying a phrase) I can say "is that something from nursery or somethnig from television?" and he tells me - he might even say "something from my brother DS1" - so that then pulls the apparent "stimming" back into logical communication between us.

If you could get to the point of saying "is that what you and DD talked about today?" "was it when you were on the slide?" you could perhaps turn the monologue into a dialogue over the next year. You could start by just identifying it: ("ah, that's what you and DD said when you were on the slide isn't it?"). I just worry slightly about driving it "underground" in case that results in him always having two things going on at the same time (the conversation with others but also the monologue in his head).

If you look at the stages in tuning into others in Talkability, you can see that if you can get him to teh stage of realising taht other people don't understand what he's talking about, then you'll have won. But until he's reached that stage, might it not just seem to him taht he's being told off for expressing himself?

I am still on 'more than words'. Just want to get the basic before starting on it (talkability). To be honest, I am one of those parents who was in denial for long time and did not think about reading up much thinking DS will be fine (even though he got a dx of childhood autism). It is only after we moved away from the UK that I have come to terms with things and realised autism or not DS has serious speech and Lang issues. Unfortunately, there are not many resources available here on special needs. So I am trying to get through the Hanen books properly if it makes any sense. Apart from those two books, my only other source of information is MN. We are very fortunate to find an expat ABA therapist who has been working with DS at the moment. Although it is making huge difference in some aspects of his learning, his speech is not improving that much. Sometimes, I don't agree with his therapist about best ways to handle something, this is one of those things I try to redirect DS in the way you suggested and his therapist and DH ignore him completely. I know this is creating inconsistency and making him confused. I just think he is playing around with language and they think it's verbal stimming.