Gifted Asperger

[brette]

Hi,
My 5 year old son has just been diagnosed with Asperger and giftedness.
What can/should I expect from the school in terms of support for him?
Thank you.

Are you sure? Who diagnosed the 'giftedness'?

I mean, I'm sure he is, these things often go together but 'giftedness' isn't a diagnosis as far as I was aware.

Personally, I'd focus on his deficits and try to get the school to work on those first. ASD's mean spiky profile, and it is all very well being intelligent but if you don't know how to use it you won't benefit from it. Do you know what his weak areas are?

Like all Aspergers, his weak areas are social interactions...
As for the giftedness, in the cognitive assessment, it says his "full scale exceeded that of 99.6% of children his age and fell into the "Very Superior" range." For concision sake, I said gifted.

Brette, the thing is that it is very common for children with Aspergers to have what is described as a 'spiky' cognitive profile.

This is something different to deficits solely in social interaction etc, which, of course, are required for any diagnosis of AS in the first place.

A spiky profile means that children may be 'off the scale' in terms of IQ but that they may suffer from problems with working memory or other cognitive functions which mean that they may require support despite their obvious intelligence.

Of course, the fact that a child has communication difficulties is also a potential and obvious problem in terms of education as is their perhaps limited use of expressive language or ability to generalise what they have learnt from one area to another.

I suppose what I am saying is that there is no one rule for children on the spectrum and it is your own child's individual needs which count.

In terms of schooling, I think what you need is to have a school which is prepared to work with you on identifying and meeting those needs so that your child fulfils his potential.

My son's standardised assessments put him into a similar bracket (95-99%), yet, in Year 2, he is only within the 'average' range in terms of his work. He has problems with writing and working memory and is not being properly supported.

Identifying your son's needs are key.

Agree with debs

BIBIC do very good detailed assessments of strengths and weaknesses and give you a 'chart' you can take away and see where he needs support. You need to try to work to get him as 'even' a profile as you can. Hopefully you can use his 'intelligence' so that he doesn't have to concentrate so much in class on getting the concpets but can instead focus on the dynamics of groups and understanding what is expected when the teacher addresses the class (i.e. does that mean him too etc.?)

It is important that you do this because whilst he currently comes in with a high IQ, he is being measured against his peers, and that is fairly unrealiable, because 'normal' development at this age is for the more concrete things, which he'll be advanced at. As his peers progress though, they'll develop more abstract thought, which he will struggle with and in relation to his peers his 'intelligence' might go down.

Social interaction forms some of the foundations for abstract thought, seeing different perspectives, understanding motives etc.

Unfortunately schools are only concerned with his academic ability, which is probably very good now, but could fall as a result of not having good input now. Schools don't understand what I have written above I'm afraid so you might need to push them on it.

Thanks for your answers.

Brette what sort of problems led you to the diagnosis. It can be quite a complicated and lengthy process so I assume there are things that you have noticed and that you worry about. There is alot of experience and help on these boards so don't be afraid to ask questions.

Riven - spot on. Communication is such a barrier.

Yep brette I hope you stay.

We're a bit blunt (sorry) and cut to the chase a bit here because it is our children's future and time is of the essence, but we have a lot of expertise and experience between us and can help you navigate the system and your ds' behaviours and help you to get the best from him!

I'm guessing you're in those devestating new days, where life is just horrid and gutting. Just say so and I'll we'll all be a bit more sensitive

Brette, DS1(6) has autism and shows "giftedness" in a lot of areas and what it's meaning for us is that the school can actually relax about the academics and help him to join in with school routines. It's important that he can join in with his peers in group work and even that he can survive in the classroom without blowing his top. When he sits on the carpet with his class for numeracy or literacy, he is given the opportunity to be the "expert" which helps his relationship with his peers.

He tested at level 3b for Maths, last autumn, but I'm not bothered if he is not always given work to that level. He finds computation very easy, but there are gaps in his base knowledge which can be filled by joining in with his class. The fact that he finds that work easy means that he can concentrate on the social side. I can easily work with him at home to stretch him, academically. Additionally, he may be great at computation, but there's a whole load of ways of presenting a problem and he very easily gets stuck on the language involved. That obviously needs work because it's potentially very limiting to his progress.

DS1 has ASD rather than AS but is also a bright wee thing. TBH I focus on the stuff he finds more difficult - his speech is terrible and his personal care a bit tricky - as academic stuff is his overriding obsession (he has to "learn his letters" apparently) and he will get there by himself I think! He's nearly 5.

Ds1 is profoundly gifted and, at least 2 years ago at age 5, would most likely have been diagnosed with Asperger's (we never sought a formal diagnosis for this but do have one of SPD). IMHO, it is very important to focus on both things equally. We worked very hard to find the proper school environment for ds1. He did have modifications in place for his sensory issues but he also had wonderful academic stimulation and the chance to interact with children who had much in common with him. As we have worked in tandem on his sensory, fine motor and core muscle problems he has made HUGE gains socially and his stimming has drastically decreased.

A term you need to look into and start using is "Twice-Exceptional". This is an excellent place to start. Feel free to CAT me if you would like to talk more about this off-board.

Can I please jump in here and ask what are the defining features of a child with Aspergers because my Dd's problems sound very similar with the social problems and the not thinking in the abstract but taking everything you say to her absolutely literaly, she is 6 and is in yr1.

My 5 yr old with AS is exactly how debs40 described - the 'spiky' profile. He is extremely academically 'gifted' (working at secondary school age in reading, maths and science), but requiring full time 1:1 support in school, not only for extreme problems with social interaction and communication, but with difficulties in (for example) deduction and inference.

The level of support your child needs will depend on how hard he finds the school environment and accessing the curriculum. What do you think? What do his teachers/the SENCo say?

For our child, we have 9after a year of debating and fighting the LEA decided that he needs a statement, and that the support we want through that statement must be full time1:1 support from an assistant with substantial experience of working with children that fit his profile. this is probably the maximum our particular LEA wold even consider providing (and it still isn't agreed - we are fighting them for it now).

I would advise deciding what support you think your child needs and then pushing for it.

What led us to a diagnosis was the fact that we were quite puzzled by his need for rituals (especially within the context of games), his very consuming passions, his tendancy to be "discipline-proof", his amazing memory/use of language (he is bilingual and a self-taught reader in both languages), his extreme sensitivity to some sounds, and his general quirkiness...
Sooo... we finally got the diagnosis. And no, it is not the "devastating new days" as I've suspected Asperger for almost 2 years now... More like an adjustment.

Some aspects of Asperger seem quite mild: he is quite good with eye contact, very extrovert, not bothered by changes in the routine, very eager to try new things, has a few friends. In a group, (school) things can get more difficult (+ sensory issues with sound and touch)

As with every child, I think every aspect of a personality should be nurtured so I'd tend to naturally agree with jabberwocky and not neglect the academic. He constantly wants "food for the mind" and I feel neglecting this aspect would be detrimental to his whole well being.

Shan.. The best starting point is to have a look at the NAS site.. Give it a google

with regard to the op.. For us it's all very well being gifted ( maths, science and history in our case).. But without having the communication, social and to some extent the empathy issue he has improved, he can't communicate enough to allow his gifts to shine through .
Without his needs addressed he would head into meltdown as fast as you could say boo.

Focus on both would be my advice.. Make sure he is able to access an education to allow the fab bits to really shine.

OK, SambuccaKelly, that gives me an idea of what to expect. We still have to meet with the diagnosis team to see what action to take. That's why I'm enquiring... To come with ideas and see what I can hope for.

Question: what do you mean by "spiky" profile?

brette, we have a thread here that may give you somethings to go on with pursuit of his gifted needs.

Brette, my DS has a very spiky profile - his IQ is high (135, but hard to measure), his speech is at least 2 years delayed. He can read/ understands number at least 2 years ahead. He is not yet reliably toilet trained. He doesn't respond normally to pain, yet has to wear dark glasses as light distresses him so much.

Basically, I was told not to compare him to other 4 year olds, but to look at what other 4 year olds with his IQ are like. Those who are NT tend to have been the early talkers, and tend to have a profile that fits their intelligence in all areas, whereas my son's profile is all over the place.

Hi Brette,

Sorry to be throwing more information at you - and others may disagree - but my peronsal experience is that I had no idea what sensory integration problems my DS has. I know there are hundreds of theories about ASD, and hundreds of people selling cures etc, but if you can afford it I would highly recommend getting an assesment at the sound learning centre. This showed us that my DS had distorted and hypersensitve hearing and visual perception problems. We did their recommended treatment (not at all cheap), and my DS went from walking out of class 5 times a day - to not walking out at all, and only having about 2 very mild 'incidents' a week. So it has been a huge and dramatic turnaround for us. And means that he can now participate in the classroom.

I am more and more convinced that a large number of his problems are caused by sensory integration problems - ie I believe that if he didn't have sensory integration problems he wouldn't have Aspergers.

Now, this is only my perosnal experience, and it is quite expensive. So maybe file this idea away in your 'good ideas' pile, and revisit it later if your son is having problems at school. But I was really really shocked to find out at age 9 how bad his vision and hearing was. I had no idea at all.

In terms of your OP about what school should be doing for him, I agree with pretty much what everyone else has. But I can tell you what support my son has had. He always has a TA in his class (I think this is normal for KS1, but isn't for KS2), he's had loads of anger management sessions, he's also had social stories (I think), and he's currently in a lunchtime club which offeres 'structured activites' for him and the handful of other kids who need it.

The lunchtime club has been invaluable. Because lunchtimes are a real problem for him.

Plus he's had some occupational therapy, including 4 sessions of sensory integration training, which again have made a noticable difference to him.

The outside specialists the school have consulted over the years are: The ASD Team, Occupational Therapist, Educational Psychologist and Behaviour Support Therapist.

A spiky profile, as suggested by the posts, means that there are different levels of skills present in different areas of functioning.

OK, then when it comes to his cognitive assessment, it is not spiky.

hi brette, dd2 is similar but different lol. she has cerebral palsy and constantly has two IEPs on the go, one for her high academic ability, and one for her disability.

is he on sa/ sa+ or using ieps at school? these can sometimes be used effectively with targeting different things (academic and otherwise)

you might want to have a look at the 'twice exceptional' stuff out of the usa, you strike me as the sort of person that might be able to make use of it, but it hasn't really taken off much in the uk. (that said, i think nagty were running some sessions last year for parents which particularly touched on the high academic achievers/ aspergers convergence)

tbh i agree with others - you need to look past labels and ask what his needs are as an individual, and how the school can appropriately differentiate for them.

(dd2 scores 142 on standardised iq tests (like your child in the very superior range pretty much across the board, but is not eligible for the regional advanced programme here because she can not hand write - her fine motor difficulties mean she is a keyboard user)

anyways, i would just make an appointment with the senco and class teacher, now that you have an official as dx, and ask whether an iep would be an appropriate way of target-setting.

lol, just noticed you beat me to it with the 'twice exceptional' buzz, jabberwocky

Brette, there are different aspects to cognitive assessment. Just because he has a high IQ does not mean his cognitive function is unaffected and not spiky unless other aspects of cognitive function have been considered.

IQ is only one set of standardised tests which consider only one aspect of cognitive function. Most psychologists agree that the greatest determinator of academic outcome for example is not IQ but working memory. This helps translate the intelligence into results. There are other aspects of coginitive function which can be tested too. Intelligence/ability is not just about IQ - but identifying IQ can mean you can try and ensure your child's abilities are not 'drowned' by the other deficits he faces.

This is why, perhaps, the term 'twice exceptional' is useful. It is generally applied to children who are very bright but also have learning difficulties/differences in the sense that they may lack of organizational and study skills or social skills, have communication problems etc.

Is your child actually at school? The reality is that things change when children get to school and have to cope with the demands of social problem solving, social communication, expectations of independence etc. Often, not always, but often, it is the other aspects of school life which can prevent a child reaching their potential. This is why people have mentioned not just concentrating on the fact that a child is 'gifted'. Getting them to school on a daily basis can be a big enough struggle but the fact that your child is bright will help him enormously.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic but it can be very difficult for a school to support both aspects of the child - the intelligence and the AS.

Hi brette,

We're none of us trying to put a dampener on the fact that your child appears to have the potential to be very high achieving. However, if he has aspergers, he WILL have difficulties that prevent his intelligence from being expressed. If you can work on those you can unlock his potential to go far, but you do need to be open to those, rather than feed what he hungers after alone.

Absolutely nothing wrong with taking what he is currently interested in and helping him to develop in that area, but if you are aware of his weaknesses you can pin them onto what he is good at and enjoys. My ds is 3.5 and can do basic maths (not massively ahead of his peers but certainly advanced of most), so we do maths turn-taking games so he can practise his social interaction iyswim.