Why wouldn't school want to put children on the SEN register?

[debs40]

I had to battle with school, as most people know, to get DS on the SEN register with an IEP and then throught the SA and SA+ stages.

I spoke to another mum of a child in DS's class recently and we have discovered that both boys are awaiting ASD assessment and dx.

She said she'd been very happy with school. Her DS has speech problems and problems with social communication/skills etc and gets a bit of help. However, as we started discussing the SEN pathway, it was clear he has never even been given an IEP in the two years he has been there.

She is a very articulate woman and is not annoyed that school have told her nothing about SEN provision.

But out of curiousity I wonder why? Why would school be reluctant to make 'formalise' provision for these children? Extra work? Doin't want to many children on the SEN register in case it puts off prospective pupils?

Well I guess there are lots of reasons.

Yes, it might put off parents; there's a strong NT assumption that having SN kids in a class makes the class unteachable. People don't "get" that they tend to come with TA input which inevitably gets shared round the class a bit so their child may actually do better.

I suppose that the more kids going through the formal SA SAP process, the more will end up with statements, and the LEAs are pressuring schools to reduce the number of statements and some of them will be doing this by pressuring them to reduce the register.

The paperwork is another thing: the govt (before it exited, pursued by a bear) belatedly realised how much extra paperwork they have dumped on teachers, and the more formal the process the more work to administer it. So if you give a SN kid 3 hours' input, you can either do it informally and give them 3 actual hours' face time, or do it formally with 2 hours help and 1 hour paperwork. So schools are now being advised not to formalise the process if it's unnecessary; if you can help a kid without the IEP and the SA reviews etc, and that works, then that's fine.

Also in some areas you may get a lot of issues mixed up: English as second language, migrant population, looked-after kids, etc. etc. as well as possible SN. So that sort of school develops a stronger "wait and see" culture because again they are told not to assume SN if the child has a complex picture: observe, assist, but don't assume they have an underlying problem till you've ruled everything else out; problems with English aren't "allowed" to be put on the SN register - I imagine because it comes out of a different budget.

Plus - ignorance. They get very little SN training but like everyone else they read the Daily-Mail type stories about how conditions like ASD and ADHD are overdiagnosed and what these kids really need is a clip round the ear. And as they aren't allowed to clip the kids round the ear, that assumption never gets disproved.

r3dh3d had made some good points.

I also think (know) that some schools won't go down that route unless the child causes them problems. Is your DS generally quiet, behaving himself etc? Often, it takes unmanageable behaviour to prompt schools into proper action. Sadly.

Some schools don't use IEPs at all -- DS1's doesn't (even though 45% of pupils on roll are also on the SEN register). They record targets and interventions individually. I must say I do think if they had to do IEPs for nearly half the school they would spend all their time writing them. They do monitor and set targets, just not through that mechanism, so theyr'e not the be-all and end-all. But extra funding is partly tied to numbers on the SEN register so for this school it is very important to have them on. In a school where there are very few pupils with SEN this is not such a large factor, I imagine, and also, as R3dh3d says, in schools with low numbers of SEN pupils you are more likely to encounter prejudice and ignorance.

There was an article recently which said that it is actually better for a school to put pupils on the SEN register because it improves league table results, and head teachers were exaggerating SEN figures to improve the CVA score. So it doesn't make sense to me, either.

I know that there is a general correlation between number of SEN pupils in a school and the number on Free School Meals - SEN funding is directly linked to FSM. So the school might be worried that it would change the image of the school, although I can't imagine most prospective parents are aware of the link.

I know a lot of teachers who say they are drowned in paperwork and admin as it is, so I expect they will avoid any extra SEN paperwork unless behaviour becomes such a big issue that it's more disruptive not to do it.

At our school they seem more than happy to add children to the SEN register, but it would seem not so keen to actually implement the support. The numbers of children on the SEN register has increased massively over the past couple of years.

My youngest (who is nt) was put on SA after a serious illness meant that his skills fell a long way behind. We were told it would probably be for just one term and was the only way they could allocate extra TA assistance for him to help bring him up to speed. That was a year and a half ago. He is now doing fine, not in the bottom group for reading, spelling, writing or numeracy and generally doing ok. Despite this at each IEP review the teacher refuses to have him taken off the register. Even the SENCO agreed with me at the last review that as his targets were ahead of other children in his class/year that are not on the SEN register technically speaking he should no longer be on an IEP. The teacher wouldn't explain why she wanted him kept on, other than to say she wanted him on it until his goes into year 2 as it could only benefit him The SENCO agreed to 1 more half term and we are due to be reviewed the week after next, so it will be interesting to see what happens at that meeting.

When I asked her what additional support ds would be getting in order for him to meet his IEP targets, she said she would simply bear his targets in mind when setting the class work, but he wouldn't be getting any additional support due to them recently losing their TA. To me this makes a mockery of having him on an IEP in the first place and therefore keeping him on the register can only have been for strategic reasons.

My belief is that, having just lost their TA to another area of the school, the teacher felt having more children on the register in her class would lend more weight to her argument for a replacement TA.

Conversely, my ds1 has a verbal dx of ASD and is currently awaiting formal dx. We spent his entire infants education trying to get someone at the school to take us seriously about his difficulties, but it wasn't until he was taught by the head of infants in year 2 that they finally, noticed him. Now in year 3, (so first year Juniors) he has just been given his first IEP. We came out of the meeting with his teachers and SENCO feeling happy that we had been listened to and heard and that the planned provision would meet his needs and significantly improve his school life. However, despite the IEP covering his needs really well, not one thing has been done towards it, even though we have written to the SENCO informing her that nothing had been done and her calling me back to say she had had a meeting with all those involved and had their reassurances that they were in the process of implementing the provision. I am now in the process of writing another letter which I would like the SENCO to have prior to his review meeting after half term, again informing her that still nothing has been done by his teacher to implement the IEP.

So basically:

In ds2's case, he is on an IEP on SA, but doesn't need to be and they won't take him off the register.

In ds1's case, they were only to happy to set up an IEP for him, but apparently have absolutely no intention of actually implementing it. (Although to be fair to the SENCO this isn't her fault, as she pointed out it is the teacher's responsibilty to implement the recommendations and she can only ask/tell her to do it.)

What is the point of going to all the time and trouble of organising a meeting, discussing his needs, writing an IEP, getting us to approve it and then not bothering to do one thing on it. How on earth does his teacher think that that is going to help him?

Fundamentally our school is more than happy to have, as the SENCO put it, a massively oversubscribed SEN register, but is not so keen to actually give the children who really need help the support they need. Its all paper pushing and lip-service exercies.

my daughter as seen by an educational psychologist the teacher requested this as her learning was getting incresingly worst the lady was wonderful and pushed really hard to get her help she is in p5 because of this she was placed on a waiting list for peripatiatic she was also reffered to occupational therepy the report came back were she said my daughter had severe dyslexia, motor skills were poor and here assessment was very damming the occupational therepist stated my daughter has auditory processing disorder this teamed with the fact she has epilepsy she get her a classroom assistant to assist her i was offered 1 hour per week support for my daughter. the educational psychologist stated she needs constent assistance but it fell upon deaf ears my daughter is now waiting for peripatiatic services and this was over 1 year ago

Primary school SENCO roles are often only ½ a day per week.....

....Imagine having to make sure that lots of children were adequately provided for within that half a day?

Our SENCO is 3 and a half days a week and is definitely overworked, but to be honest she is great and I have no problem with her. Its the teachers we have problems with.

I do understand that they have a class full of children to provide for and many/most are overstretched already, but would rather they didn't agree to do things they don't have enough time/resources to do, than they fobbed us off with meaningless paperwork. I find it really upsetting to sit in a meeting and be told everything is going to be done to support my child, only to find none of it has. I end up feeling like I've been made a fool of and have let my child down in the process.

I suppose for me, transparency is the best way. If its the case that they simply cannot for whatever reason provide the additional support my child needs, I would much rather be told that directly than have them make promises there's no way they can fulfil. At least then I am in receipt of all the facts and plan for my child accordingly.

I just don't get the need for the whole thing to be so complicated and difficult to navigate. As I see it it should be this simple:

1. The child's needs get assessed and his/her requirements are identified.

1. The school (and or any other relevant personnel) meet to decide whether or not the school are able to provide for those requirements.

1. If the school is unable to provide the necessary support, the parents can decide whether or not they want to go ahead at that school without the additional support or look into alternative options.

I know its never like that in real life, but wouldn't it be wonderful if it was?

That's just it though. The school should have to give a genuinely tangeable/justifiable reason why they can't provide it, rather than just won't can't or don't. I do mean 'the school' though, rather than individual teachers. The school should state why they can't provide it and if they haven't got a tangeable reason why they can't, they should have to provide the teacher with the necessary resources to do so.

I agree with your second paragraph. Teachers are told they have to provide things whether they actually have the time/resources to do it or not. I'm sure in most/many cases the individual teacher isn't the problem (although in ds1's case I do believe the teacher is a large part of the problem for a number of reasons I'm not going to go in to here).

I suppose I didn't word it very well, but I am just sick of being treated like the proverbial pain in their backsides and like I know nothing, when in actual fact they know less than me about my sons' needs. We are supposed to all want the same thing (a good education and happy school life, that, as far as humanly possible, meets the needs of all the children) yet it always feels like we are on opposing sides of a battle.

I actually sat in a meeting last term when a teacher looked straight at me rather accusingly and said something about it being down to the parents to work with their children to make sure they are numerate and literate and how cross she gets that 'most' (looking directly at me) parents just can't be bothered. I was livid. I spend literally hours a week doing additional handwriting, spelling and reading practice at home with my children, on top of the huge amount of homework their school already heaps on them. I have massive a pile of full exercise books here to prove it as well. To me it sounded like, despite the fact that we all send our children to school for an education, it is our responsiblity to teach them to read and write. In my case, I probably have taught both my boys myself, as they have had little or no help with their difficulties at school. I know a lots of parents at our school do do the bare minimum with their children in terms of homework etc, but to assume I'm one of them when I care enough about my children's education to try and get them the additional help they need is ludicrous. I guess she must be of the opinion that I can't be bothered to help my children myself so expect them to provide extra help to make up for my own shortcomings.

As for trusting the schools to be the professionals with the expertise to help our dcs - well, I have yet to see them give me an ounce of evidence that that is the case.

Ironically, I got the letter for ds2's IEP review in his bag this afternoon. His review (and his brother's for that matter) was dated in the middle of the half term holiday but the actually meeting has been set for the end of June. What's the point in having a review meeting about how his IEP is working so late that he will only have a couple of weeks of fun end-of-term activities left before the summer holidays anyway? Some days I just feel like throwing in the towel and home schooling - but then both boys actually like going to school and ds1 needs the social/communication element that I just couldn't offer him at home with me every day.

Moosemama, I know exactly what you mean. Schools should be very clear about what they can and can't do. However, I think it is back to what Star is talking about in terms of LA approach and pressure. Schools are under pressure not to ask for statements and to accomodate everything out of their own budget.

Schools can't or won't do this, but rather than say your child needs funding beyond what we can provide, they just fail the child by pretending they can deal with it all 'in house'.

This is then complicated by the fact that with ASD, when children aren't causing problems for school, teachers find it incredibly difficult to understand that there is a problem and even if they do they haven't got a clue what to do about it.

Add to this the fact that most teachers see SEN as children with numeracy/literacy problems, not children with social communication problems etc. I actually get a kind of attitude from teachers that this is 'social work' and not what they are there for which is to teach literacy and numeracy.

Once a child is on the SEN register then their actions are monitored, so why would you want to bother when you dont know how you're going to make progress as you haven't a clue about the child's needs?

Yep, ASD sure is a tricky one. The thing is though, it isn't going away. With 'inclusion' plus the shutting down of special schools they are going to have to come up with a way of dealing with it.

I've heard that Independent ASD schools are popping up all over the place coz there is 'money in it' coz the 'good ones' are in demand and charge a fortune.

Grrrr

Yes, I've heard that too...people saying have you thought about private school . There's money in that there autism, sadly.