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Are these ASD traits?

10 replies

gnu · 19/05/2010 11:11

(I have also posted this in the behaviour/development section)

DD (who was four in March and is our only child) has been in school full-time since September and has been causing her teachers some concerns. This has resulted in a discussion with the SENCO about 'ASD traits', which has come as something of a shock to us. We don't know how best to interpret her behaviour and are worried that she will get categorised as requiring ASD interventions when these may not be appropriate.

In short, DD has always been a very shy girl, particularly around adult strangers. She would 'turn to stone' and look away when adults spoke to her, although she will talk to adult acquaintances once she is 'warmed up' and feels a little more comfortable. She is typically the same with teachers - often not responding to their questions or offers of help - although again she will talk to them when she doesn't feel under pressure. She is a very talkative and demonstrative little girl at home.

She has always been better with other children, although she has never been good at sharing and would often as a toddler see other children as competitors at the playground, etc. Other times she would happily play with other children if she felt comfortable with the situation. She has certainly always loved playing with others and becomes sad when she feels too anxious to join in. When playing with others she has huge fun, laughing and shrieking - she doesn't prefer being alone. Although she can easily tell when others are cross or happy - she is very senstive to this - she's not very good at being kind or showing sympathy.

This anxiety about joining in with groups of children has certainly got worse at school, partly I think because she is in the lower year of an integrated two-year group (many of whom already had friendship groups) but also because there is a very unstructured approach of learning through play. She has a few friends/playmates but has quite an intense/dependent relationship with one of them (quarrels and "I'm not your friend anymore" situations). She is happy talking and playing with children she knows outside school when we visit them but is much more reluctant at school. When she does join in with new children, she often still 'plays alongside' - at least at first - rather than engage more fully like they do.

Her vocabulary is very good and she can already read simple word books. She loves imaginative play and telling us made-up stories. She paints very imaginative pictures with very imaginative titles.

I think the teachers are also worried about her 'rigid thinking'. She is certainly very stubborn and can protest when she is told-off or when we correct her reading, telling us that she is right and we are wrong. But she also understands, eventually, when we explain things to her and can tell us why she is being told off. Although she liked some repetitive activities when a toddler - fetching and carrying books one at a time, putting socks in drawers (not the right ones!) - she isn't at all focussed around this type of play and doesn't seem to display 'repetitive behaviours' as such. She doesn't get preoccupied with things (perhaps aparty from princesses, fairies and pink things, but I guess that's fairly standard smile)

She has always coped pretty well with change. Although she settled well into routines when small, she doesn't really mind whatever we do together now. Not having a bath, going to school differently, changes in mealtimes, long journeys to new places to sleep, etc - none of these things bother her in the slightest (she even welcomes many such changes). Although she is sensitive in many ways - doesn't like feeling ashamed or told off at all, quite limited in her food choices - in other ways she isn't. She never really complains when she bumps herself, is too hot or cold, or is wearing uncomfortable clothing.

We've always known that she is socially anxious ('shy') and quite stubborn, but have never thought she showed the other characteristics of ASD. Both of us as parents were shy children and still feel anxious in informal social situations (but much better in formal ones - for instance, I would be happy to deliver a lecture to a large audience but would avoid a cocktail party full of the same people like the plague). We are happy if she gets some more structure/formality in her day to stop her feeling progressively more withdrawn. It would also be good for teachers not to tell her she is shy and allow her to use this as a kind of excuse for avoiding communnication with adults.

From looking at ASD traits on the web I read that ?All children with ASD demonstrate deficits in 1) social interaction, 2) verbal and nonverbal communication, and 3) repetitive behaviors or interests. In addition, they will often have unusual responses to sensory experiences, such as certain sounds or the way objects look". Out of this list, DD is certainly having trouble with social interaction, but this seems to me to be due to anxiety rather than any lack of interest in people. I can't see any sign of the other two deficits - her oral and written language is good and she is not especially repetitive.

But we're now worried that we might be missing the big picture here. Can anyone help with views or advice please? Sorry this was so long.

OP posts:
Al1son · 19/05/2010 11:47

Having done a lot of reading around ASD in the past few months I would not have great concerns for your daughter.

Yes, children with ASD can be seen as lacking in empathy but that is because they struggle to read other people's 'distress' signals. Once they are made aware they are usually just as empathetic as anyone else.

Imaginative play can be a good indicator because a child with ASD who enjoys imaginative play will usually play alone, with imaginary friends or with friends who are significantly older or younger and will give way the the child's way of thinking.

Girls with ASD can be harder to pick up because thay often use intellectual strategies to fill in the gaps. Eg they will learn by experience that a particular facial expression or tone of voice is usually followed by a particular type of action and will link the two. This takes longer that the usual instinctive reaction so may be apparent if you look hard for it.

When ASD was mentioned in terms of my daughters, I read up on it and it felt like I'd found the missing peices of a jigsaw puzzle. There has been no doubt in my mind that they have it and it has been a relief to find some logical explanations. If you are not feeling like this I would be very wary of going down this road. I would also say that it is very hard to get a diagnosis of ASD so it's unlikely to be given wrongly.

On the other hand, if the staff have recognised that your DD needs some support with social interaction and are willing to spend a some time and resources giving this to her I would accept it. She can only benefit from this and it really doesn't matter why they're doing it as long as it is helping her.

Hope that helps

gnu · 19/05/2010 11:51

Thanks AL1son.

I understand exactly what you are saying. In one way, I am happy that the school is picking up on some of the difficulties she is having with social interaction - whatever their cause - and might be able to support her better. That's all good.

But we were concerned to see that she has already been labelled as displaying ASD traits on no basis other than a few jottings sent by her teacher to the SENCO. She already has 'ASD traits' next to her name on the school system before anyone had discussed any of this with us. My concern is not so much with the labelling, as that it might encourage the school to treat her in a particular way that is not appropriate.

Already, for instance, her teacher spoke about giving her 'time to think' between a number of options. This isn't at all what she needs - she knows her own mind only too well. She just needs to be 'led' into situations that we know she will enjoy as long as she doesn't have to feel pressured initiating them at the outset. Even if she wants to do a particular activity, she will always tend to choose something that doesn't require her to fell socially awkward at the outset.

OP posts:
claw3 · 19/05/2010 12:00

Just wanted to say i would grab any help the school are offering with supporting your dd's difficulties, whether she has ASD or not. As the help she receives for social situations etc, cant be the 'wrong' help, it applies to all children who have social difficulties, not just ASD iyswim.

imahappycamper · 20/05/2010 10:35

I wonder if the teacher has been on an ASD course and now sees ASD traits everywhere.
There does seem to be a rush these days to "label" any child who doesn't meet the expectation of "normal" whatever that is.
Sounds to me that your DD just takes after her parents and that there are many different types of people in life, some of whom love socialising and some don't.

Al1son · 20/05/2010 10:45

Hopefully they will be reflective about the strategies they are using and bin those that aren't successful. If you want to be a little more involved you could ask them to do an IEP (individual education plan) with you to agree startegies to use at school and at home. To be honest they should be doing one anyway if they are using particular strategies with a child.

I don't feel that it is appropriate for the school to put ASD on her file. They could list any perceived difficulties but those would be on the IEP. She should not have a label like that without a diagnosis and you are a long, long way from one of those. I would ask for that to be removed straight away and request that you are more involved in the planning they do for her. All in the spirit of cooperation of course.

gnu · 20/05/2010 11:27

The SENCO was surprised that we saw anything odd in her having ASD against her name, saying "we're all on the spectrum somewhere". This seems a bit dim to us - clearly we all have some traits in common with ASD, to a greater or lesser degree, but that it very different from meaning that we are all on the ASD spectrum (which requires certain threshold severitites and combinations as I understand).

On the one hand, this just means that they might just be using ASD as casual shorthand. But even so this can lead unwittingly onto other things. Yesterday, DD came home saying that she had a picture on the wall which allowed her to choose her preferred activity and that all the children were told that this was just for her. Although we are very willing to consider things that would help her, I'm concerned:

(a) that this seems a classic technique for ASD children with verbal processing difficulties. Is that right? I don't think this is DD's problem. Its not that she has difficulty choosing, its that she is anxious about choosing things that make her feel 'exposed' and will opt for the safest option even if she would enjoy the other activity once she got started.

(b) that this is needlessly differentiating DD in her class and that this might make her sense of self-consciousness even worse.

OP posts:
imahappycamper · 20/05/2010 11:43

Al1son is right, they aren't in a position to give her a diagnosis.
Yes I agree, we all have ASD traits, in fact I was going to put that in my last post, but we don't all have enough of them to make a diagnosis appropriate.
I would say it is very bad practice to label a child as ASD with only slight evidence, and without consulting other appropriate professionals.
Has the SENCo got any specific qualifications in ASD which give her the right to make these judgements? Her remark was a bit glib and would have rankled with me.
I am sure they think they are doing all they can to help your DD, but you probably need to talk to them again.

SE13Mummy · 20/05/2010 11:44

Has your DD said what she feels about her activity chart? Whilst it is fantastic that the school are being so proactive I think I would be inclined to ask them if the focus could be more on her social skills e.g. do the school/SALT run social skills groups or could they set up a circle of friends for her? Both of these are quite structured so may offer her the security she needs but will help to give her strategies for responding in different situations which will help to build her confidence.

The activity chart could be used to help with encouraging her to try out activities she's less sure of e.g. she has pictures/labels with writing area, constuction, dressing up and climbing outside and is given some time with an adult to essentially plan her day by choosing which order she will do these things in. Coupled with an adult teaching her to take off the labels as she completes the activity it may be a useful way for her to stretch herself to try things e.g. she puts climbing as an activity she'll do before snack time then, come snack time she has dealt with it and doesn't then need to worry that some horrible adult is going to try and force her to do something that worries her because she's done her challenge for that day.

It would be more helpful if the school communicated to you the reason behind this chart and precisely how they believed it meets your DD's needs but it's not necessarily being used as a support for verbal processing, it may be a way of giving her control to reduce anxiety.

gnu · 20/05/2010 11:49

Thank you both. That's very helpful advice.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 20/05/2010 17:12

I think it's very difficult to identify what autism is. The range of symptoms seems to be so wide that it becomes almost meaningless. On the one hand, there are people with profound difficulties that mean that they need constant 1:1 care. On the other there are people with 'traits' and all the famous people who may or may not be autistic. It makes it very hard as a parent to grasp what people are talking about. When you add to the mix the people who have a little bit of knowledge and 'know' exactly what autism means, but don't really know much about your child it is incredibly confusing. At the moment I think its taking the place of ADHD as the most likely synonym to be used for "doesn't fit into the educational system".

However, the impression that I am getting is that in some places, funding that wouldn't otherwise be available may be directed to your child if they can tick some of the boxes for ASD. I think the nature of a bureaucracy is that it has to label things. It's not great, but that is the way the system works.

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