need help with the school please!

[AwayWithTheFaries]

ds is 5 and was dx with ADHD and mild autism a couple of weeks ago
i picked him up from school today and was told that there was a few issues at lunchtime with him taking other children's glasses and scratching other children (nothing unusual)
anyway there are 2 school events coming up a sponsored fun run at the local park and a day trip to a nature reserve
anyway his teacher told me that as a team they have decided that he can not go to either of these events unless i go too
the fun run is not a problem for me to attend
but the nature reserve i cant go to because
1 i have a 8 month old ds2 who i am still breastfeeding and have no one to look after
and 2 the school wont let me take him for health and safety reasons (fair enough)
but why should my son be excluded from the school trips because of his special needs?
his teacher did not give me any reasons as to why they want me to go with him on the trips and i was so shocked and upset at what they said i just said ok fine and left otherwise i would have rared up!
iv got a meeting first thing tomorrow with the head so any advice as to what i should say/ask would be great!
sorry its a bit long!

"a few issues at lunchtime with him taking other children's glasses and scratching other children (nothing unusual)"

My DD has a prescription of over ten and is functionally blind without her glasses. She was diagnosed at the age of two and has been under the care of Moorfields. That's why I read the special needs because occasionally there is someone in the same boat, ie with a child with a visual disability.

I have every sympathy with your son's needs but I'm sorry, the manner in which you seem to dismiss deliberate and it would seem repeated ('nothing unusual') targeting of vulnerable (and yes, special needs) children does not arouse my sympathy at all. Grabbing glasses from children who might literally not be able to see without them is not a trivial issue and is deliberately picking on and bullying the vulnerable. It often seems to be belittled, as you belittle it and yet how would you like to pay over £100 for news glasses because they were grabbed and broken and you are not entitled to another pair until your next appointment? I would be begging the school to protect my special needs child as well. I do understand that your son has extenuating circumstances but I wonder why he is deliberately targeting the vulnerable. And why you are belittling his grabbing of a visual aid from a child with a disability.

Sorry to go on but this has happened to my child who is literally blind without her glasses to the extent that it is dangerous and whilst this might to you be 'nothing unusual' it is very distressing indeed.

sorry 'new glasses'.

sorry but this is not something that is trivial.

If he's scratching, I'd keep his nails cut very short as well.
I'd also be asking the school to have a specific, named lunchtime supervisor to be in charge of monitoring him in the playground so that she can intervene and support him before the situation escalates. Not 1:1, but an observer with a duty of care.
He needs appropriate support from the school, and that would include enabling him to take part in any activity that all other children are participating in. Even if that means him with a TA 1:1 for a specific event.

bellisima - I understand your frustration, as no-one like to think about their child being targeted, picked on or bullied by another child, whether they have a disability or not, but I do think you have been a bit harsh on the op.

I don't think for one moment she said (nothing unusual) to dismiss what her DS had done, just to make us aware that this is not a one off event so we got the whole picture of her DS to give advice on this situation. Speaking as the mother of an autistic child, she is probably mortified when she hears from the school that her DS has done things like this. There is nothing she can do about it. Trust me, it's not as simple as sitting a child with Autism down & explaining to them why the other child needs their glasses & what a horrible thing it is to take them away from them. They just wouldn't understand.

And to say that her child is "deiberately picking on and bullying the vulnerable", is not a fair statement. Do you have much knowledge or ADHD or Autism ? Speaking as the mother of a 6 year old autistic son, I don't believe for one minute that an autistic child could "deliberately" bully or pick on another child.

Chunky - okay I said in my post that I am sorry but I find this issue distressing because it has happened to my child and whilst, to many people, it might simply be a case of a child having his/her glasses 'flicked off,' to a small child on the receiving end (and we must be talking of such here) it is a deeply aggressive and traumatising act. The child often hates wearing glasses anyway, to be picked out and aggressed only exacerbates their feeling of self-consciousness. I would rather my own child didn't go on the trip if that was going to happen to her. fwiw. And the financial consequences can be deeply distressing as well - the school and the other concerned parent don't generally offer to fund a new pair if they are broken. And frankly, from the words ('few issues' 'nothing unusual') I did not get any sense of empathy from the OP for the other children involved or any notion that taking children's glasses is more than an 'issue' when it is a deeply traumatic event for the child involved - I'm sorry if I am mistaken, very sorry, but I detected no empathy, just frustration about not going on the trip. And yes my god-daughter is on the ASD spectrum. She does not pick on the vulnerable (she generally picks on herself) and her mother would be mortified if she did. Of course - as I said, in this case the instigator has extenuating circumstances, but I detected no empathy from the mother, simply 'issues'. As I said, I have every sympathy for her child but her own words made me less sympathetic to her to the the extent that they ignored the disabilities of other children. We need to live together in society and recognise other's needs and not only our own. I recognise her child's needs, I just hope that she recognises the needs of children with visual disabilities because her words did not give me that impression. Again, I apologise if I am wrong.

bellissima - I understand your distress and you have certainly given me an insight in to a world I knew little of. However, I really don't think the op was trying to belittle these problems. I think she was making the point that this type of activity was not unusual for her son and so would not, in and of itself, justify exclusion from a trip.

You will know that ASD children are as different from each other as all other children are but they are united by deficits in social skills, including an inability to generalise, which can be very hard to deal with. My own 7 year old is a lovely, passive boy but he lashes out ferociously at his little brother when angry. He is, however, not a bully, but a child who cannot manage his anger. Acknowledging this does not mean I have no sympathy for my younger child.

It is quite legitimate for the op to post about her concerns about her son's inclusion. I don't want to put words in her mouth but if it were me, this post would not mean I didn't feel sympathy and great embarrassment for my son's actions and I think it is unfair to read something into a post like that.

I think it is the second time today I have read a post which has not contained the usual kind of supportive language we extend to each other here. This does not mean we agree with what everyone says, but that we understand that this is a safe space and as we are judged everywhere else, we should be entitled to express our concerns without being flamed here.

thank you all for your replies
the head apparently only found out about the trip yesterday and i think it was only briefly discussed between the teachers
anyway all parents with special needs children at the school are asked to go on the trips with their child
the trip isn't until the end of June and the head is going to try to sort something out what that will be i don't know
but i did suggest another parent going in my place and me seemed quite keen with that and the other mum iv spoken to about going for me has a ds with ADHD so that will help!
I'm going to ring the parent partnership tomorrow and see what they say too
and we are still waiting for the peads written dx to get a statement for ds

bellissima
i dont think it was the other childrens seeing glasses he was taking i think it was their sunglasses
his speach and social skills are about 18 months behind his peers and he dosnt understans what he is doing is wrong and it breaks my heart everyday when i pick him up from school and they tell me what he has done
and he was put onto half days and not having lunch at school because of him hurting the other children
iv asked them for a designated dinnerlady for him but they dont have the staff

Debs - as I said, I apologise if I misconstrued the OP's words. But I thought that this was a topic section for all with special needs. Posts on visual disabilities are rare, and so I rarely post. I would never, ever seek to advise/opinionate/argue with regard to a disability about which I have no experience. But, as I said, I feel particularly distressed whenever there is a suggestion that grabbing children's glasses isn't any big deal. As I explained, unlike myopic me who can't drive or go to the cinema without my glasses, my daughter can't see without hers. And no, I haven't tried explaining to an autistic child that she needs them - but nor would I find it easy to explain to my child that there's any difference in the fact that her glasses were broken by this child as opposed to that child, because the end result is that she's still blind. That's why I find chunky's 'whether they have a disability or not' also misleading and somehow belittling - yes being picked on or bullied is always distressing but if you have a disability and the instigator (whether deliberately or not) grabs an aid that you need it is also dangerous - which is why a school might have a particular duty of care to ensure that it doesn't happen. And of course I understand that there is a difference as regards intent (or indeed lack of any) by the child, but it simply distresses me when I honestly get the impression that, to the parent, the act was no big deal. And again I apologise if I was mistaken, but please don't flame me either when I discuss my concerns about my child's disabilities and the fact that they are often ignored.

Another depressing thing is - what is the endgame? One parent rushes to the school in indignation, quotes the law and demands that her special needs child be protected. Another rushes to the school, quotes the law and demands that hers be included. Both are absolutely in the right. likely endgame - no more trips .

Thanks Away - although please understand that in this weather sometimes sunglasses are also prescription (like my DD's - she also suffers from glare). I'm sorry if I misconstrued your intent.

No, endgame is all children, irrespective of their disability have a right to be included as far as this is reasonable. That is what inclusion is about and if we don't demand it and fight for it, no one else will.

This clearly touched a raw nerve with you and I understand why. I can also understand that you can feel isolated as there are lots of posts on this board about ASD etc.

But you had a really important point to make and we do all listen and try and respect each other here. It's really not like the other boards

Thanks! Yes, as I hope I admitted up front - a raw nerve. I'm sorry. Yes you are right about the endgame too. And of course it's funding that stops that . (And whilst it would be a tiny amt in the scheme of things, the no new glasses until the next prescription chg or annual appptmt can be a nightmare for low income families however their child might lose/break/sit on a pair. another great grrr.)

debs is right, I'd like to see you posting more often bellissima.
Yes, I have a son with Asperger's, but I'm also the teacher on duty trying to ensure that the child with CP has as much fun at playtime as everyone else without him worrying that he's going to get bumped or barged.
I read all of the sn posts, it helps me learn about stuff I know little about.

No need to be sorry. It was good that you were able to post and share and you really did open my eyes to a whole new side of disability so do keep posting. I can see how awful and frustrating the glasses thing would be and how it must make children anxious about losing/damaging them.

Keep posting!!

I love this board - un MN huggs all round