Just got dd's statement through, advice please?

[Marne]

Just got dd2's statement through, i have never seen a statement in my life so have no idea if it is good or bad. It states 15 hours 1:1 when she starts school on half days and 30 hours when she is full time. It also states that the school she attends will have to have experience with PECS and will have to have ASD training (will this help to get her into SN school?) our local MS has no excperience of ASD (other than with dd1 who has mild AS), they don't know anything about PECS so would have to be trained.

Does this sound ok? is 30 hours the maximum 1:1 you can get?

What are the school hours? 9-3.30pm? If so full time hours including breaks and lunch would be 32.5 hours.

School hour are 9-3.30, to me its more important (if she goes to MS) that break times are covered by 1:1 as she has no sense of danger and could get out of the school.

There are times during the day that she would be ok without a 1:1 (i guess) as she can sit still and will happily take part in a activity as long as its something she likes.

Marne, how does it look to you?

Pretend you were a tightfisted LA with the intention of fobbing you off for the next year. How would you WORD things.

Does it say she WILL be provided with 15 hours of 1:1? Is this contact time? Does it say how many days she'll be there full and half days? What does PECS experience mean? Does it mean holdin a Pyramid Education certificate plus a years practice? What ASD training is required, one day 4 years ago by a receptionist with an asd ds?

YOU say your local MS school has no experience of ASD, but would they and the LA say the same? (amazing how many people think they are qualified because they SAW a child with autism once).

If it isn't CLEAR to you that they mean special school then you need to make sure they revise it so that it is, if that is what you want.

Try to get one of the charities mentioned on here to have a look over your statement.

Words like 'up to, approximately, as appropriate, to be decided by' etc need to be banished.

Its a lot better than i thought it would be but the perfect outcome would be 'full support'.

If she gets a place at SN school then i don't really need to worry as the school is very clued up on ASD and PECS.

I have spoken to the head at the MS school and he's keen for dd2 to go there but he has not got a clue about ASD, they seem to think she will be like dd1 (who is a dream to teach) but they are very different. I will do all i can for her not to go there TBH.

They have said they will add the name of the school after it has gone to panel in just over a weeks time.

I think a statement for a special school would normally say something about being 'highly resourced for SEN' and make reference to a high staff-pupil ratio. Also, it's not so common to have 1:1 specified in a special school (not unheard of but parents often have to fight for it - LA usually say the small staff-pupil ratios are seen as sufficient for SN school).

So I'm afraid it doesn't sound like SN school to me - especially if the head of MS says that they think they can meet DD2's needs. (But I hope I'm proven wrong! )

You probably need to go right back to Pts 2&3 and tighten those up so that the requirement for SN school flows from that. Any changes to Pt3 needs to relate to a SEN in Pt 2 and be backed up by professionals. If there are recommendations/needs written in reports which have not been put into the statement, you should query that.

I agree that it's a good idea to get one of the charities to run through the whole statement.

They sent a letter with the statement saying 'if dd2 gets a place at *** (sn school) then the statement will be amended and the school named'

The statement says:

The school requires access to: County Phychological Service, Behaviour support service, in line with SEN code of practice requirements.

To aid her speech and language requirements:
Adults who understand PECS, how dd2 uses this to communicate, how to prompt her to use her PECS book when making choice/requesting an item, how to respond to her using PECS. Additional time to process what has been said and Verbal instructions which are short and clear.

I have someone from Cerebra coming in a couple weeks but that will be too late as we only have 15 days to reply, we are off on holiday tomorrow and the day we get back is when it goes to panel for her school place.

Ok, Marne. What you have is a Mainstream school statement. That statement would look completely different if it was heading for a Special School.

On the mainstream front, you have a bit of difficulty. LEAs don't view lunch and break times as 'contact time'. In other words they are not teaching time, so they don't need to be provided for in the statement. Unless your statement specifies that she is to be given 1:1 support at break and lunchtimes, the school can use that 30 hours however they like. And you can guarantee that they won't want to use it at lunchtime, because that means they have to get cover elsewhere to relieve that person so they can have their break during teaching time.

Regarding PECs, it really needs to be pinned down that they have had proper PECs training, not just 'understand it'. I understand PECs; I understand that you use a card to allow a child to make a choice, then you only let them have the object when they choose.

Would you want me teaching your child with that knowledge? I think not.

If you want SS, then you might find saying "I couldn't imagine DD being able to go to a MS school without 1:1 support for every minute that she is on the premises because of x,y,z" (esp if there are health and safety grounds) might work. It did for me.

Thanks Lou, that makes sense. I am worried about her safety at break times and i think the school would find it hard keeping her on the playground, she would run off across the school field (which she does now when i take dd1 to school), surely they would need someone to stop her running off and going where ever she wants? (she has no understanding of rules).
The school has used a 1:1 for break times with another child (different dx to dd2 but not as bad as dd2) so maybe the school would consider covering break times.

I really don't want her to go to the MS school, the school in combining 3 year groups into one class (reception, year1 and year2), i feel dd2 would struggle and she could distract her sister who is struggling to fit in in year 2). Although the school has been great with dd1 i don't feel it would be the case with dd2, i feel the SN school is our only option . If she doesn't get a place she could stay in nursery until she's 5 (March).

There is no mention of toileting in he statement, dd2 is still in nappies and i can't see that she would be fully toilet trained in time for September, should this be in the statement?

Treehouse have a good guide to what a statement for autism should look like.

The best way to respond to an inadequate statement is to rewrite it yourself, adding sentences and rewording bits that you think should be in there (ask them for a copy of the statement as a Word doc and make your changes in a different colour). However, the LA often only accept changes which directly relate to one of the reports/evidence in the appendices. You can also refer to case law/SEN COP to justify changes.

Will you be having a meeting to discuss the proposed statement? You're entitled to ask for one. It may not necessarily be helpful in actually persuading the LA to change anything, but it delays the deadline that the LA needs to finalise the statement, so it could give you a bit more time to speak to the Cerebra worker.

Thanks Sugar.

Do you think she will be refused a place at the SN school because of the statement? does the statement mean she has to go to MS?

Over all i am quite happy with the statement, i thought it would be a lot worse (less 1:1 support) so i was kind of at the 30 hours 1:1 (even though i feel she needs it, i thought they wouldn't think so).

I'm not sure about the meeting, i guess we should wait and see if she gets a place at the SN school (if its possible) which will be in 8 days time (leaving me a few days to adjust the statement if i need to).

It is not so much that the SN school would refuse her a place, it's more an issue of MS being a cheaper option. The LA has to use resources efficiently, so if the MS head is saying that her needs can be met in MS, that is probably going to be cheaper (even with 1:1 support).

If the LA decide to name the MS school, you would have to show that they can't meet DD2's needs and that the SN school can.

Have you spoken to the SN school directly to ask whether they think they can meet DD2's needs? It's useful to have them onside and they might give you some idea wrt places.

It says that the school needs access to behaviour support. Is behaviour a problem? Do you have any evidence for it? That is often the key to getting out of MS - the school can say the 'attendance of the child at the school would not be compatible with the efficient education of other children at the school' if they think behaviour would affect the other children.

I think you should just wait and see what they name. I do think it looks like a MS statement but your letter does mention the SN school by name. Put it to one side and enjoy your holiday!

I don't think behaviour is a problem, i guess it depends how you look at it, she's not a risk to others (no violence etc) but she doesn't do as she's told (mainly because she doesn't understand whats being asked of her), she doesnt have huge melt downs but will cry if someone stops her from doing what she wants to do.

We know the deputy head at the school and he suggested last year that dd2 should go there, at the time we said 'no' as we thought she would be able to cope in MS (now its clear she wont), we only applied for the SN school 2 months ago so when we started the statement it was to go into MS school.

you need it in there that dd will need access for changing faclites and help with personal care

Dont knoe if dd needs salt or ot support is that in there

You need to have a statement that makes it clear that there is absolutely no doubt that she has to attend a SN school. Think about what the SN school offers that MS cannot and put that into the statement. It has to appear as a need in pt 2 first, and then pt 3 has to mirror it as the kind of 'prescription'.

You say you were impressed a bit with the level of support. Do you think they did this to try to convince you to stay at MS?

SALT is on there.

FNN- that is possible.

Marne,

SALT needs to be in Part 2 as well as 3. If it is not there reject.

Parts 2 and 3 are the most important parts of this whole document so they need to be bang on. Also they can be damn nigh impossible to alter once agreed so this is also why it needs to be accurate.

Provision needs to be both specified and quantified; if it is not reject it.

Would run this past IPSEA and or SOS;SEN on Monday and read parts 2 and 3 to them verbatim. You must seek independent advice in any event before agreeing to this document.

ok, i have just sat down and read through it (without kids interupting).

SALT is mentioned in parts 2 and 3, toileting i very briefly mentioned in part 2 (just says 'dd2 is not toilet trained').

It sates that she can have 30 hours of support which can be 1:1 or in a small group.

It mentions dd2 not understanding danger in parts 1 and 2.

Most of the statement is based on her communication problems and sensory problems, her behaviour is not mentioned.

Make sure the thing s mentioned in part 3 are specified and quantified. Not just - "will have regular speech therapy" - Halleys comet is regular.

It needs to say eg "will have a daily 20 minute 1-1 speech therapy session with an assistant who has been trained in the use of PECs. She will follow a programme devised by a speech therapist which who will work with her and review the programme every 6 weeks."

If there is a need identified in Pt 2, there should be a corresponding objective/provision in Pt3. So if toileting is mentioned in Pt 2, there should be something to meet that need in Pt 3.

Pt 2 should describe all of the needs which were identified during the statutory assessment. You need to go back through the appendices and see if there is anything they haven't mentioned.

Have you seen the SEN Toolkit guide to writing a statement? This is how it should be written.

Look at this guide

ACE

Usually they should leave Part 4 blank for you to name the school and then they say in final statement if they agree or not - usually the wording would hint at special eg in the ed psych report might refer to direct teaching by specialists. PECS training and autism awareness sound like mainstream sent on a 1 day course to me.

Ok that's the clue 1-1 or small group ds had this and told them what's a small group him and one other or 5 or ten small group us no good make them clarify in ds case more than one other child in a group would mean they would talk over ds as easier than signing working at ds pace

ask them to clarify small group

How much salt support has she been offered I got them to add that ds teachers must be trained in signing To a recognised level and qualification .I tried screw down his statement very tight though it had been pretty much agreed all round that ds needs. Speech. Unit

We did get unit I wanted were now just wrangling over Ot input lea have agreed that ds needs full asssement from Ot and so far have one visit a term contact time wrote in

It doesn't say how much SALT she will be getting (i will try and get that put on).

Fingers crossed for next week.

Will the panel (dealing with the school place request) be able to see the statement if it is not finished?

Yeah I'm sure there have access to it ds case worker was on the panel how's that for impartial not !!! Mind we did get unit

if salt not specfied good luck because even when ds had it in his ms statement for half term struggles to get oh and insist on contact time with dd for salt otherwise it can be just phonecalls or writing reports

phone your caseworker they should have pretty good idea if going to get Ss or unit mine did

Same with oT I'm harrassing Lea now before final issued they have changed everything else I requested but in that respect it's rare for herts

Ask how they will meet dd needs toilet wise etc as changing is meant to be done with two adults present Ming that been ds last school over cautious response