Inappropriate Behaviour

[bear73]

Hi

Firstly I want to say hello and introduce myself, I am married and have a daughter who is 7 years old. She was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder aged 4 and since then Dyspraxia, Hypermobility and Aspergers (diagnosed a year ago).

She has been doing really well in mainstream school, a few wobbles in Year 1 with the change at the start of term but apart from that fine and managable. She has been having a great Year 2 but since Feb she has changed a lot in school. The teachers started by telling me she was much more "obvious" in class, lots of calling out when she shouldn't and sometimes just annoyingly repeating random words over and over. Consequently she loses golden time most days and recently became very upset about this one night at home. There has also been a few cases of inappropriate behaviour recently. At her art club she was leaning across the table and kept saying "who can see my white knickers", at school she asked a visiting teacher, who was a complete stranger, seating near her "if she wanted to see her knickers". Today I collected her from school and the teacher said the knicker obsession is continuing and today she was lifting her skirt in the playground and showing her knickers and trying to get other children to do it too. After art club today her teacher said she had to tell her off 3 or 4 times as she just found it hard to pay attention and stay on task and kept rushing her work, finishing quickly and saying she had nothing to do and generally being loud.

At home she has become very argumentative over the tiniest thing. I think she is very tired but will never admit it and still seems hyper even though I know she is exhausted. She won't face up to things she has done if I ask her about them, she just walks away and won't talk about anything that has happened in the day. She said today she knows she shouldn't show her knickers but sometimes she can't help it.

I just want to help her. Anyone have any experience of similar behaviours? I was thinking there might be some good books to sit down and share with her. We are seeing the national centre centre for high functioning autism at great ormond street on may 21st for a thorough assessment and I hope that will help with understanding her needs better.

I am starting to feel like I can't do this on my own and I need some help (and so does she). School are calling in the Advisory Service but have warned me they are unreliable. She is such a sweet girl at times but I finding her behaviour hard at the moment. Very challenging, argumentative, doesn't listen, asks a question then ignores the response, sits and listens to same song over and over and over every morning.

Sorry for the long rant. I hope someone can help. Last week she was so upset one bedtime, said she was different because she was naughty and keeps losing golden time, says she tries to stop but can't. She went to say the other girls never lose golden time and they are funny and people like their games better. She kept asking me what i was like as a child and did I "behave" like her. I don't think she can control herself at times and I find that very worrying. I can't help but think being in a class of 30 isn't helping her.

Any advice on usual visual things to help teach her about inappropriate behaviour as talking doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks

bear
x

Hi bear,

Feel for your DD as well as your good self here.

The NAS may be good to contact now and you may be able to find out more about reading her social stories.

With regards to school I'd start applying asap for a Statement of special needs for your DD from the LEA. This type of scenario re school difficulties is not all that uncommon and can happen also when a child's additional support needs are simply not being met by school. It sounds too like she is simply bottling up all the frustrations of the school day (she is finding it very hard to cope with school hence all the inappropriate behaviours).

Is she on anything like School Action Plus currently?. Has anyone ever mentioned a Statement to you before now?. Is there any SENCO involvement within school, have you met the SENCO on a regular basis?.

I tell you now she will find it bloody hard in the Juniors without a Statement (due mainly to all the unwritten social conventions that surround such places) so would go all out now to secure such a document for her. It is unlike other things legally binding so the school will have to take proper note.

You are her best - and only - real advocate.
You are truly best placed to fight her corner for her.

Have a look too at IPSEA's website re Statementing:-

www.ipsea.org.uk

A statement where we are are is nigh on impossible. Needs have to be very high to warrant one and nowadays they apply for exceptional needs funding instead. Even exceptional needs funding is difficult, there are children in dd's school far worse than her that don't have statements. Our county (Herts) is particularly bad, it is like they are stepping away from statements and more towards getting extra funding for specific children. The SENCO is not great she often tells us how hard it is to get funding and how she has to sit there with senco's from other schools and they all have to plead their case for what they want. I just don't think I would have a prayer to be honest. Apart from this recent spate of knicker showing her only problems have been calling out in class. She is not overly disruptive, not aggressive and is excellent academically. I feel smaller clases would help but thats not going to happen where she is. Until recently the teachers said she barely stood out from the other kids at all.

Today she was pulling up other kids skirts but I know this is because some girls were egging her on and then she kept it up at a later playtime. I have had a good chat with her and it seems she just can't help it, she actually said that when she is really well behaved she is "bored". Can you believe that???

Last week she was in tears because she keeps getting told off and doesn't want to lose golden time at school.

Hopefully our assessment with GOSH in a couple of weeks will help matters and suggest some strategies. I am dreading Juinors in Sept.

bear
x

My god that sounds just like my dd, she also publicly masturbates

Don't really have an answer for you but I will say that constantly punishing the child for behaviour she probably dosent understand is wrong and will only make her feel bad about herself which will make her misbehave and thus the circle continues...

I read to today MyFriendGouda it's the limbic system that causes that? A sensory problem and therapy can help? Something to do with Neuro/reflexs?? Sorry dont understand it all.

New P your dd symtoms are becoming greater needs esp vulnerable can you apply for 1:1 and basic training on AS in the school for staff

Hi

The first thing I am going to do is get this assessment with GOSH over and done with (it's a week on Friday). Hopefully a lot of info will come out of that and they will suggest help and support for her.

If they suggest more support I will fight for it. My problem is that for the most part she has slotted into school fine and in her 3 years there has never needed any extra support, the TA even said to me last week that she doesn't stand out at all. She is brilliant academically and only causes minor disruptions in class and not always on a daily basis. My hope of getting 1:1 support for her must be zero, I know of children who are majorly disruptive in that school that get no 1:1 help. Not a single child in that school has a statement, only the 6 children in the seperate deaf unit. I have been to meetings with the senco who openly says its hard to get any exceptional needs funding these days let alone a statement.

I desperately want to help her and I have a very good relationship with her teachers they have made reasonable adjustments for her and she is allowed a seperate area away from the cloakroom, her own box of fiddlies and a weighted lap blanket for carpet time. They also have a trainee teacher in at the mo so they do have 2 teachers and a TA at the moment in the class. Bottom line is I think she needs a smaller class size and less sensory input.

One of her teachers is the old SENCO who gave up the post about 18 months ago.

I think we are in for a tough time. Saying that she had a wobble at the start of Y1 and then after a few weeks settled down and was fine after that. Something is unsettling her and we just need to find out what.

bear

Hi Bear and welcome, have the school tried telling her or showing her what they would like her to do instead of showing her knickers?

It may not be the right school for her, my dds old school did try but the poor child didnt know whether she was coming or going, she was the naughty one, the different one and there wasnt a thing she could do about it.

She had her own workstation in the class with her own ta, marking her out as even more different.They didnt understand her and we had social services sent round because of the public masturbation and the fact she liked 'squelching' adults (squeezing fat basicly) I now know these are common problems with children who have autism, at the time I felt like the worst parent in the world.

The final straw came when we were walking to school, she was self harming and repeatedly saying 'i'm bad, i'm horrible, i'm going to get shouted at again today because i'm bad', the poor child was only 6 and just seemed so bloody resigned to the situation, its all too easy to blame the child when most of the time its the inability of the adults that causes the problems.

I took her out of that school and put her into an inclusion school where she is thriving in a class of 15 ish and 4 classroom assistants, the school is still mainstream but she is no longer the only one, the bad one.She masturbates less as she is less stressed and when she does the school handle it well (sending her to a private place) not by making her feel bad. Its the best thing I ever did for her and in all honesty I believe if your child is behaving in this way never ever blame her, sometimes people mean well, it does not mean they are right.

She's 11 now and everyday I thank god for her school and what they have done for her.

And she should be getting 1;1 help, my dds school took her in BUT the basis on them taking her was that she had a statement which covered her from 8am till 3pm 5 days a week. She got that, and transport.

My stance was if she didnt go there, she wouldnt go to school at all and I had no qualms whatsoever about taking the LEA to court with backing from the new school etc I also stated very firmly that what was happening to my child in the school she was in was child abuse, they didnt understand my child and she was suffering as a result, I also showed them the scars on dds hands and arms,and repeated the court threat then asked them what they'd do if their own 6yr old child was self harming.

They shat themselves, havent had a problem with them since and the statement still stands.

Herts are spinning you a line so balls to them. Do not fall for it. What you have been told by them is a complete falsehood and they are acting illegally here by uttering blanket policies. They know it too, no LEA is above the law and Herts have been sanctioned many times by the Secretary of State for their actions.

Apply for the Statement and kick ass with them. Your daughter can certainly not afford to have her educational rights messed around with. You personally apply for the Statement, you have far more power than school or SENCO (who sounds crap actually) ever would have. Herts do not honestly have a leg to stand on here.

I do not wish to upset you further but the children at Juniors can be pretty much merciless with someone who is perceived to be "different" in any way and she will find it bloody difficult and she will find the whole unwritten social conventions almost impossible to deal with. She will take out all her frustrations on you. This in term will impact on you as a family, it already is. No doubt GOSH will say your DD needs more help and one way forward here is to kick arse with your LEA.

BTW you will be interested to note that IPSEA get more complaints about HERTS's poor provision than practically anywhere else in this country!.

Hollow laugh indeed. IPSEA get more complaints about Herts than practically anyone other county in this nation of ours.

Haven't read all the posts, but have they been doing SATs, practising endless SATs papers etc? This could easily have added to her sense of frustration at school.
The other thing is she needs a reward system, not a sanction system. Just knowing you are always going to lose your Golden Time is enough to make you give up. She sounds so similar to my DS at that age. (He didn't show his knickers, but tried desparately to be class clown). He used to say he got more attention by being naughty, and he was quite right.
Speak to the school and ask if she can have a reward system. Possible one would be if she manages to go through a session without calling out/showing her knickers/whatever behaviour they want to target she gets a sticker on a chart. Set number of stickers brings a reward- extra time on computer/smiley face home to Mummy/reward from Mummy whatever. My son had a system like this in Year 5 and it was the only year in his Junior School where he made progress.They may well say the school has its own systems and the Golden Time thing is one of them, but children with Special Needs need special arrangements.

Well all in all a positive day. I wrote a letter for the teachers as I had a good chat with dd and also with her OT on the phone last night.

OT said dd should go back to using her weighted lap blanket and fiddlies at carpet time and any other time she needs them. I also suggested that they start a positive reward system for her,rather than focusing on taking golden time away.

DD also wrote them a note saying she was going to use her fiddlies and could she have a little chat with them :-)

Anyway, teacher saw me this morning and asked if all was ok and if I had had a chance to talk to dd. I explained how I saw things and about all the OT stuff and she was fine. We also agreed that although dd is fine most of the time that means it is easy to forget she may need extra support/attention at times and they are going to work harder on spotting her cues and reporting to me when things worsen so we can work together to find out if anything is upsetting her.

After school dd and the teacher came over with a new book called "dd's Happy Book" and it was full of little stickers for today with smiley faces. Teacher said they had had a wonderful day and she had been like a different child, no issues at all and really happy about earning her stickers. The lap blanket and fiddlies worked a treat too. I also changed our chart at home to one where she earns stars for certain behaviours and when she has a certain amount she gets 50p pocket money and then when she get another amount she gets another 50p - then it all starts again for the next week. This way she has the power to earn lots of stars to get to the required amount to earn pocket money.

I am happy that I told the teachers that I think she hides her needs well and we need to recognise she still needs support - she totally agreed with me and seemed really pleased that dd was back to her old self today. Next its GOSH and then together we can hopefully work out a support plan and whether or not we need to push for more support or even a statement.

Thanks for all your advice, lets hope today wasn't just a one off. In answer to the question of SATs yes they are doing them at the moment and there has also been a student teacher in the class since Easter which I think has unsettled her.

bear

Wow. Hope it carries on in the same vein.