what can I do about dd1 and baths?!

[silverfrog]

dd1 is a former water-phobe (there'sprobablya proper word for that, but ahve been up all night, and can't think straight)

she was extreme, tothe pointof not drinking.

she s doing really well these dys, and most things are ok again.

she enjoys waterplay, loves swimming, will drink form a closed cup, and we are able to give her a bath without the neighbours calling socil services because of the sreams

BUT

we have not got to the pointof regular baths - more to do with breakingher everyday routine ofnothaving one, than fear of baths, and we are working on it.

Currently, she has abath every fortnight or so (and yes I know how scummy that sounds, but wedo wash her daily she jsut doesn't get dunked in the bath)

And when she does, she si sick afterwards. Not in a tension kind of way, as she genuinely seems to enjoy baths now. BUt, without fail, during thenight, after bath day, she will throw up. Usually 3 times.

She is sat besde me now,as she is off school as she has been sick, when I know it's not a bug, she's been sick because she had abath.

So what canI do? I need to wash her hair somehow (and fortnightly is pushing it, tbh, as it does get a bit manky), and showers are still a big no for her.

And spare me a thought. So far she has nly been sick twice, so there is oncemore to go!

She isn't drinking the bath water, or the shampoo, etc. We already use totally chemical free soap/shampoo etc, so not reacting to thatI shouldn't think. What could it be?

She isn't sick after going swimming (goes both with us and with the schol) - where she does end up drinking the water!

We had this problem a long time ago - in fact I think it was my first ever post to SN! I put a baby bath in the kitchen and he took to that quite quickly - first with clothes on (!) then undressed.

no, no showers, Fio. They are working on it at school, and she will stand close by in the shower now, but not under it, or even close enough to get wet, really. we can trickle water down our arms and onto her hand now, that's about it.

she really does enjoy baths now. Yesterday, for eg, she ran happily to the bathroom, and chose which toys she wanted in the bath.

Undressed herself as far as able to, and walked to the bathroom. Got in, and started playing with the boats/animals. Counted them, told me the colours etc. Wanted to wash herself, so I put some soap onher hands and she helped me out.

She lay back onher elbows so I could wet her hair in the water, and tipped her head back.

Big shampoo of hair (chin length bob), while we sang songs, and she messed around pouring water in/out of cups.

Lay back again while I rinsed her hair.

Then I said to her to timeto get out so dd2 can have her bath, and she refused ot get out as she was having so mcuh fun.

5 mins later suggested it again, and she agreed. Happily got out and helped dry/dress herself.

Not a hintof distress (other than at the thought of getting out), really no issues at all.

Once dressed, they always have a snack box of raisins, but as she gets through several a day I can't think that that's the problem either...

It's a total mystery, but honestly, have been tracking this for a while now, and without fail she is sick after bath day Never at the time, always several hours later (usually do baths mid afternoon so her hair has time to dry - very thick hair and no chance or a hair dryer anywhere near ehr!) Yesterday she had a bath at 3.30 pm, and was sick at 3am thismorning.

Most bizarre

I'd give dry shampoo and a spritz of spray conditioner a go to freshen her hair up between washes. Dry shampoos great, if it works on my grease pit it'll work on anybody !!

I could try dry shampoo I guess.

Thing is, and I know this sounds totally over-protective parent,and woo etc, but we really are a (nasty) chenmical free house.

And dd1 calmed right down about baths when we stopped trying to use "calming" shampoos/soaps like lavender, chammomile etc.

the soap we use for her now is prectically edible it is so friendly (honestly, although dd2 tells me it tastes nasty!) and I would be very reluctant to introduce unnecessary chemical stuff. She honestly has improved so much (all round, such as digestive health etc) since we took everything artificial out

Could she be getting water in her ears which is making her feel nauseous? DS 2 (no ASD) has ear problems and can be sick after swimming.

Failing that, DS1 (ASD) can be sick because of sensory overload. He always does it when we go on holiday. Just the excitement of change etc will inevitably make him sick in his sleep......luverly!

could be ear issues. she has ear issues, and would make sense. but she's not sick after swimming, when she def gets water in her ears )

sensory overload also possible (is this even ossible?) but quite delayed reaction, isn't it? and again, she is ok at swimming, which is surely similar - surrounded by water, dressing/undressing etc with added noise?

I know it seems strange but DS1 definitely gets a delayed sensory overload reaction at bedtime, perhaps while it's all still buzzing in their heads. The OT thought this was what was happening too.

Could it be related to the water temperature? The swimming pool would be much cooler than a bath?

Could you eliminate soap/shampoo altogether? Children are often fine washing in just water.

I will talk to dd1's OT on Friday, see what he says. She has just started a sensory integration programme. I can see that it's possible, but she has similar levels of sensory stimulation in nearly the same environment (with added stress too) at swimming - I am just/ marvelling that it couldbe that, iyswim?

It could be temp too, I suppose. Heck, it could be anyhting! It's just so odd, especially since she now likes the water.

I wouldn't like ot see her hair minus the soaps,tbh it gets bad enough as it is, especially with ehr habit of pressing her fingers (and hair) into her ears, which are, always a bit waxy and she is fine with the soap when just washing, or using at school for washing hands etc, so can't think it would bethat

Have you tried separating the hair washing and the baths? What happens if she has a bath - with minimal detergent - and doesn't get her hair/ears wet? What happens if you wash her hair without washing the rest of her? (eg over the sink with one of those special protecty hat things that makes your head look like it has the rings of Saturn orbiting it)?

If you can narrow it down to one or the other, at least then you can increase the frequency of the OK one iyswim.

Maybe it is over stimulation and then the upset over getting out of the bath?

My DS hated the bath until we bought him bath crayons from mothercare - totally transformed bath time, but then we had the same problem as you, he hated to get out.

Now I make sure I have a sheet of paper on the bed and I let him take a bath crayon with him to draw on the paper.

This way I can sort his hair etc out too.

Would something like this work for you?

silverfrog a far as I know all dry shampoo is, is fine talc, obviously not everybody likes using talc but chalk dust brushed through the hair may work the same

thanks all.

I haven't specifically separatedout baths and ahir washing, could be worht a try. I was talking to dh about this earlier. We always say we want to try ot get baths regular, and the natural place to start is from a clean position! So intention is eg to now implement quick bath each night, minus the hair wash, to be done at weekends for eg. But then each time we get dd1 clean, she gets ill (maybe that's the link ) and so we don't start the quick dips. And when she is well again, she is grubby again, and so it's back to washing,waiting for the next bath to start the new routine, and on it goes... that's when I started noticing the pattern!

thanks swisscheese, I'll have alook into it. might well be worth a go if it is the hair washig that is the issue.

Would she enjoy a stand up wash in a large bowl or bucket? I used to do this with ds who was phobic for a while. He was younger than little silverfrog ( so could sit squashed securely in a bucket) but I used to do the same as a student. I wondered if only standing in water would not make her sick.

Hi Silver, ds tells me tipping his head back makes him feel sick (he hasnt actually been sick) Something to do with the Vestibular sense i believe.

Thats a good idea to try not to wash hair and bath at the same time, to see if it still results in sickness.

thanks, claw. That does make sense, in a way, but, but , but (and I know I sound as though I am dismissing everyone's thughts - I'm not, they have been vey useful in helping htink htis through) dd1 loves hanging upside down (on climbing frames, off us, leaning over mirrors to see upside down, etc)

Oh, it's all such a muddle, isn't it?

I wish something (anyhitng!) was straightforward

And I still don'tunderstand the time delay either. It is always a good 10 hours or so after bath that she is sick.

No distress, in fact now enjoyment.

No reaction to soap as we use it to wash hands etc.

Could be water inears, but this happens at swimming too (her swimming teacher regularly dunks her compleely under the water!) and she is not sick then.

Could be water temp.

It is really bizarre.

Silver, ds loves spinning around (that does actually make him physically sick, doesnt stop him from doing it though!)also seeks hanging upside down, head over heels etc

Its all about the processing of info ie his brain is telling him to spin more, but not sending the appropriate signal when his body has had enough.

Ds is rarely sick immediately, usually a few hours later and doesnt show any signs of distress while spinning, only enjoyment.

The not washing hair is worth a try, if you can tolerate no hair wash for 4 weeks!

Its really weird and often conflicting, when it comes to the senses.

Can def cope with 4 weeks no hair washing - has been far longer in the past

Will be an interesting experiment. She started sensory integration last week, and was no doubt spun around and dangled at odd angles on swings. She loved it, and was definitely calmer over thus weekend (can't say whether immediate effect or coincidence - time will tell!)

Silver, i find with ds too jumping on a trampoline and some exercises i have to do to improve self injurious behaviour, help a lot. Definitely something to providing input in a safe way, improves seeking it in inappropriate ways.

Ds would be more than happy never to wash his hair or bath again, he hates it. Have to do a bath at often as he soils (although with his diet, he only needs to go to the toilet about once every 3/4 days, so bath then. He has water phobia too. Although we are making some progress.

Hope you find the cause.

Oh we definitely see an improvement after lots of exercise with dd1. Her language is amazing after swimming for example.

But she was just so calm, in a place that prompted meltdown last week. This week she walked along nicely in the shopping centre, listened to us when we said things like "this way" rather than being in her own little world. Was observant (with reminders, but she is only 5) of people around her and buggies etc, rather than walking straight through them. She calmly walked past escalated rather than going into meltdown, and was, for want of a better word, "normal" in her behaviour (until she started insisting on taking her shoes and socks off)

it was quite amazing.