Walking away from teachers

[PouffeGalore]

Hi all. DS (10) is awaiting ADOS test and has suspected Aspergers. Most of his problems are in the playground where issues with other children mean he is often getting into trouble. He gets really stressed and will walk away from teachers after incidents because he says 'he has had enough' etc. Some teachers have shouted at him which makes him more distressed. I realise this is a safety issue and school have said that he cannot keep walking away or will be externally excluded. They say he has to learn not to walk away but if this is his way of coping with things not sure what can be done to stop this - any ideas? Have first TAC meeting next week with Senco, school nurse and behaviour support and want to say that if support was available at break times then issues would not escalate. Is this is a common problem for AS children?. Thanks for any advice.

Yes, I spent a long time getting my lad to walk away from stressful situations that overloaded him, he used to hit whatever was in his face.
Souting at him made him yell back and then meltdown if he couldn't escape. They used to let him leave to a designated safe place an talk to him when he'd got control back.
The teachers need to link with outreach support to learn the most effective way to support your son in school.
My son was excluded a couple of times in Y7, I had a looong meeting with them whilst I explained that they were in danger of creating a delighted school refuser. Too stressed? get excluded and go home. He could really see the link.
Things have got unbelievably better over the years, Y7 was tough, Y8 better, Y9 almost trouble free and Y10 touch wood no problems.
School have been fantastic.

Yes, my son (15) still does it. I think somewhere in the mists of time someone told him to leave a situation before he got too stressed so that is what he does.
You are right to see if you can get support for him at breaks.
Giving him a safe place to go would also be on my list, so that he is not left wandering round the school.
Sounds as though the teachers need training in ASD. It is difficult for some teachers to keep their cool when a pupil walks away from them but it is important that they handle situations like this calmly and in a controlled way. I read somewhere that you need to deal with Autistic people "with the emotions turned off." If I can do this with my son, just repeating calmly what he should do it is much better than getting cross which leads to confrontation.(I don't always succeed mind you!)
If he had support at breaks the adult could then talk him through the incident and help him to understand how he could change his behaviour.(This is not instant- just a question of keeping on plugging away.)
Is the site secure? If there is a real danger of him leaving the premisis it would be even more important to have support.
I am not sure he can be externally excluded for walking away from situations like this. He cannot be excluded for reasons relating to his disability and I would say that it is fairly typical behaviour for a child with Aspergers. I think they have a duty of care to your DS and there is an onus on them to keep him safe. Try your parent partnership. Ours were very good when our son had a run of exclusions.

If you need it, I'll find chapter and verse of what I used to argue against exclusion on legal/discrimination grounds.

Thanks imahappycamper & Goblinchild. I may take you up on that offer Gc if things get any worse. Interestingly, when he was in trouble for walking away from the Head I asked him why he did it and he said 'because I'm always told to walk away from trouble at school'. I explained this to the staff but they think because he's bright he's just using that as an excuse for his behaviour. and knows exactly what he's doing.Good point about not being externally excluded because of disability but as he hasn't got a dx yet would that matter? He can't get out of the school so is fairly safe but running into school at break times is the problem. Do the school have to request outreach support or can I do this?

Work towards getting him a dx, the legislation I used was specific about using exclusion on sn children without having exhausted all possible alternatives.
I didn't go at it aggressively, I was attempting to make the school see that if they got it right, they'd have a good student who applied himself and achieved, and if they got it wrong it would be explosive in an instant. I could always spot what had triggered an incident, got several teachers to try my suggestions and when they worked, the school were sold on the specifics. Mine's bright too, that's why AS is a hidden disability. People think he's doing some things on purpose.
You can ask the inclusion team to get involved, and parent partnership are helpful too. What route are you taking for a dx? We went through the GP.

Senco is the exclusion manager and says she has experience of lots of HFA children! Have seen EP who suspects something high functioning. School made referral to community paed who,after looking at history and talking to us, esxpected to make AS dx. However when she met him she said he wasn't presenting as she expected and we are now on waiting list for Ados test then sensory assessment. Will be sometime in September if we're lucky. Am considering SA but Senco says we don't have enough evidence yet although from other threads here I know that's not a reason to refuse to assess. Will mention SA again at meeting next week. Behaviour support have been involved before and not sure what suggestions they can make now. School have been extremely supportive so far so don't want to fall out with them over this.

While our son was awaiting diagnosis his IEP was adjusted to say something like "Asperger type tendancies". This was really helpful because from then on teachers were expected to treat him as if he had AS even though it wasn't confirmed.(His school is a big Secondary with many AS students).
My DS is very articulate and it disguises the areas where he has poor understanding and we still have situations where teachers think he is being deliberately difficult. I am afraid it goes with the territory. Teachers are human.
Incidentally our DS doesn't present as classic Aspergers. He falls into the "active but odd" category and seems very sociable with adults. Eventually when all the assessments were done though there was more evidence that he was than that he wasn't.

imahappycamper -does your ds have a statement and if so how hard was it to get one? At meeting Monday I will suggest that staff are informed that ds may have AS as this might help change some of the staff attitudes towards him and perhaps they will understand that he's not being deliberately rude towards them .

Pouffe

Feel for your son. School can be very tough indeed for many children regardless of where they are on the autistic spectrum. My son has a Statement and am bloody glad that he does (it is only because of the Statement being in place that teachers actually realise he is not being deliberately obtuse/difficult with regards to his spoken word).

Your DS does not need behaviour support (what do these teams exactly do, short answer nowt!) so much as a Statement. Having a legally binding document like this in place may go some way to making his school life easier as his additional educational and social needs would be properly documented (and thus the school would need to take notice).

Did the EP observe your DS in school or did you see such a person privately?. Did EP make a recommendation for statementing?.

I would apply for a Statement now regardless as this can take six months to set up. Would not worry about a potential fall out with school, what they have done to date has not really helped. Lunchtime support is not readily obtainable without a Statement being in place and even with one some LEAs are loathe to provide such cover.

As for Senco saying you don't have enough evidence - tsk to this person.

Have a look at IPSEA's website as they can be helpful and there are model letters you can use for the LEA. You would need to write to the Chief Education Officer at your LEA and give them six weeks to reply.

SOS:SEN can also be helpful and could the NAS.

Re the meeting on Monday do not use the words, "may have".

You are your child's best - and only - advocate. Never forget that, you are truly best placed to fight his corner for him because no-one else will.

Thanks Attila. I agree with you about the behaviour support - the same woman who saw him a couple of years ago is coming in to offer advice. He has been on SA+ for 4 years now so don't see what else they can offer and even Senco says she thinks they might not be able to help. School nurse is also attending meeting - don't know what she can suggest to help either! Have heard on grapevine today that Senco has got a new job and being cynical wonder if that's why she's telling me not to apply for sa until the new school year! Do you know how much support should be in place for SA+? We were told in Yr 3 that ds was classed as gifted so would this reduce our chances of getting a statement?

Attila - sorry forgot to answer your questions. First EP observed ds 4 years ago and offered very little advice. New EP met and assessed ds (no observation). She didn't recommend statementing as such but stated that school were continuing to moniter and gathering information to decide if his needs are being met at SA+ or whether to make a request for statutory assessmment. Also stated'interventions could focus on the cognitive behavioural approach'.

PouffeGalore-he was diagnosed at 12 (Yr 7) and got a Statement at the end of Year 8. For us getting a Statement was really straightforward. We went to a review and I said "Do you think it is time to apply for a Statement?" and the Ed Psych and SENCo agreed. The school made the request and it was through within 5 months.
I have to say that being on SA+ for four years sounds as though it isn't working for your son and I am surprised the school have not gone for Statutory Assessment.
I know what the SENCo means about evidence as I have known requests turned down for lack of evidence. However four years doesn't sound like lack of evidence to me.
Being gifted does not reduce the chances of a Statement if there are other problems, such as behaviour, social understanding etc. My son has a very uneven profile. His reading age when assessed at 11 was 15, he is extremely articulate, but his maths is extremely poor and he has unreadable handwriting. We focused on the behaviour and receptive language and his lack of social understanding rather than just academic achievement.
I know of a Yr 6 boy classed as gifted, with Aspergers, who has recently got a Statement.His main difficulty is behaviour and social understanding.
Incidentally I was told this is a good time to apply for a Statement because it is the start of the financial year and there is money around.

While your waiting for dx. It might help if you can have a meeting with class teacher and senco.
Let them know this is his flight bit of fight or flight and he is overloaded at that time. He mayhave to be spoken to, but this can be done when he is not on overload.
It might help school if they understand you and your ds's coping statagies you alreadywill have inplace.

Hth and keep at it and good luck.

Might also be worth getting a pass or red card in for him.. Where when he is on overload he can just show card to teacher and they will have in place a room where he can relax a bit.

AS are great with rules and if it's a rule that you go to x room when you show your card he very likey will ( because it is a rule)

Pouffe

In this area of West Essex in which I live the usual number of hours for support on SA plus is 2 hours per week (this number also applies to secondary school). That is often broken down into 15-30 minute segments and there's never any one to one. Its clearly not enough and the other problem as well is that it is not legally binding either. So the boundaries keep shifting.

Would also agree that being gifted does not reduce the chances of getting a Statement put in place. A Statement is about addressing additional social and communication needs as well as academic ones; they are not just for academic needs. I would argue that he needs a Statement asap and this will be particularly important to have when he reaches secondary school. It could make his school life and all its social unwritten stuff that goes with it that little bit easier as his needs are properly documented. To my mind your son needs the Statement and soon.

Pouffe - don't let the school make the request for the Stat Assessment or you'll be waiting till secondary school, many schools sit on such applications and thus delay them unduly.

Make the request yourself asap, you know its been done then and unlike school you can appeal in the event the LEA say no initially (which they could well do). School cannot appeal if LEA say no. I'd thus kick polite but firm ass with this shower you're going to meet and explain that you've decided to apply for a Statement (and watch their looks of horror when you say this!).

His needs are not being met by school currently and will not be whilst he is languishing on SA plus (the only difference between this and School Action is that there are outside agencies involved).

Has your son previously seen a developmental paediatrician?. Its a good idea to get such a person on side, this person could also write to school.

I would certainly talk to an organisations like IPSEA, ACE and or SOS;SEN to get their counsel re your son's situation as well. The more information you have the better as knowledge is power.

You are your child's best - and only - advocate. Never forget that.

Attila - I am in mid Essex! Your advice is really useful.
Saw paed last month after referral from school. She said that from history and talking to us she expected to give dx of AS but after meeting him he did not present as expected so Ados test is required. Senco has mentioned SA in the past so I will go in tomorrow and state that I am going to put in request this week. I am concerned about the timescale so won't let her fob me off. I would add that ds is on a waiting list for counselling for trauma caused by infant school failure to meet his needs. They separated him from his peers and put him in a playground with younger children. How was this supposed to improve his social and communication difficulties?

bumping for Attila