DS 's abusive behaviour

[qwertymum]

My son has aspergers and due to his violent and abusive behaviour towards me and his sister was put into anger management by his school.
Aggresive behaviour is something that has been mentioned by other people I know who's sons have AS.
The anger management has worked to a degree. He isn't attacking me physically anymore, but will thump inanimate objects.
The problem now is abusive language and his attitude towards me. He is like the original abusive husband. You know, the one abuses is wife because she gave him sausages instead of steak for dinner.
I don't know whether this change is due to his vocabulary developing and is more able to express his anger verbally.
He says sorry afterwards but then will carry on in the same vein.
I've tried sending him to his room to think about his behaviour. I've explained to him that 'sorry' isn't a way to let him off the hook. 'Sorry' can only be believed if it's backed up by actions. 'Sorry' should mean that you understand your behaviour is wrong and will try to behave in a more civilised way. None of it seems to be working.
Being a lone parent I don't have his Father on hand to back me up, not when I need it anyway.
I'm finding this very wearing at the moment, and naturally he doesn't behave like this at school. When I mention this to his anger management teacher she tells me that he is making a choice to behave this way, and looks at me as if it's my parenting that is lacking. I must admit there are times when I've lost it. For the most part I remain calm and try to deal with it. Losing your own temper just makes things worse.
Is there anyone who has some advice on how to manage my DS's abusive behaviour? Is there anyone else who has come across this behaviour in AS children?

I didn't say DS is 10yrs old. I don't want this to become a normal pattern of behaviour.
Help anybody?

We had a lot of this when our Aspie DS hit puberty.
I would try to ignore the teacher's comments. She isn't living with the problem and if AS could just be "cured" by effective behaviour management we'd all be signing up for classes.
We found that you just seem to go over the same ground again and again. If you just keep saying the same thing calmly eventually it does go in. I found "People with Autism Behaving Badly" useful. (Got it from Amazon).
It talks about targetting the behaviour you want to tackle and not trying to solve everything at once.
In our case things got so bad we resorted to meds. Eventually we found out that he was deeply unhappy with aspects of his life- being different, not being able to make friends etc. He has improved as he has got older. Things aren't perfect but they are much better than they were.

Qwerty, my ds is 6 and firstly i dont think there is any wrong or right way, just what works for you.

To make a choice to act any way, means that you understand what the choice is to start off with. Many ASD children dont understand concepts like cause and effect, before and after etc. So literally dont understand if i do x, it will result in x. You have to TEACH any child that they have a choice, its not something they are born with as Counsellor seems to think!

Ds will refuse to say sorry (even if he did, it would be meaningless, as its just a word with no understanding behind it)

Usually home is where children feel safe and he is probably saving up all his anger, confussion and frustration that he experiences through the day for home.

What help does your ds get in school?

Anyhow at home i have 3 behaviours which are zero tolerance (for all my children regardless)and these are stuck up on the wall

1. no hitting
2. no swearing
3. no name calling

If they break these rules, they lose privileges.

I use choices/alternatives (so ds can learn, he has a choice) for example if you feel like hitting someone, you can punch a pillow etc, etc.

Also choices for the things ds finds difficult, where ds can choose, but i control the choices, rather than it turning into a defiant battle. For example getting his shoes on, ds will refuse. Which shoe are going to put on first, rather than just get your bloody shoes on iyswim!

I have found with ds the more i insist, the more defiant he will be and it turns into a battle of the wills. Obviously i cant just let him have his own way. But i try to keep it light hearted. Turning things into a game, i will count to see how long it takes for ds to put his toys away etc. So he does what i am asking without a big battle.

I also try to do 20 minutes exercise with ds during the course of the day, so he can get out some of his frustration ie bouncing on a trampoline etc.

Ds is very passive, so whether this works or whether its just they way he would be anyway, i dont know!

Thanks both of you for your replies. I shall look out the book you got Imahappycamper. You couldn't let me know who its by could you?
Your DS's defiance Claw3 is very familiar to me.
I have tried turning getting ready for bet into game, seeing if he could get ready before I did. It worked for a while, but as with most things he became bored with it and I have to find other ways.
I try telling him that if he gets on and does something I've asked him to do he can have a treat. A friend over for tea, going to the park or anything that I know he'd enjoy. Within reaon obviously! He has started now telling me that this is blackmail, which he points out is illegal! So it's time to move on to another tactic.
I agree that AS people have difficulty when it comes to a course of action when they are feeling upset and angry about something. As you say they have to be able to stand back and assess a situation in order to make a choice about their reaction. Something my son seems unable to do.
His class teacher is, to be fair , very patient with him, and my DS gets on wellwith her, which is a bonus. The school have arranged for Freeways (local advisors in AS) to observe him in the class setting. When my DS is in year 6 they will visit and help prepare him for senior school, as obviously this will a big change for him and stressful.
I see his Dr this month at the hospital so I will bring it up with her, maybe there is a group she can book him in with at the hostpital.
Thankyou again for your advice.

My son became very aggressive at about the age of ten, he is 13 now. There will be times when you tell him directly that what he is doing/saying is wrong and he just won't see what the problem is, it will someone else's fault. I used to really tell him off but then I began to realise that this actually made him worst. I think for your sanity just talk to him in a very calm voice and explain as logically as you can. It does't stop them from doing what they are doing but it does stop it from getting out of control.To be honest my DS's attitude stinks sometimes and he's language is really bad.
Be prepared for senior school, its a big change and normally soon after the hormones kick in, sometimes i think its like a storm you just gotta ride and eventually life will calm down again. My DS only got he's diagnosis end of last year, just before he left junior school he would sit up trees , refuse to come to class or talk to the teachers, got very distracted so at the time found this very distressing.
I havent read any books just looked on the internet for help but I may get that book myself.
Hope things work out for you x

It's a bit worrying that you describe him as "the classic abusive husband".

He's an autistic child. Discipline methods designed to make him feel guilty about other people's feelings will simply leave him frustrated and baffled.

If you discipline him by sending him to his room to think about how his actions have impacted upon you, you haven't actually disciplined him at all.

Give him a set amount of pocket money in a clear jar at the start of every week. Fine him 10% (or 20p if he doens't get percentages) of this money every time he is rude to you.

If he doesn't value money, lock up something he does value (NOT a comfort object) such as his Ds (if he has one) or anything else he routinely likes to do.

Action - he is rude to you
Consequence - you take away something he values

EVERY SINGLE TIME

You being a single parent isn't relevant. You don't need a father around, you need to put your foot down hard and stop giving his tantrums (for this is what they are) the same respect you would give to an adult's complaints. You are the grown up, you are the mother, he has to do what you want him to do when it comes to the way he speaks to you.

PS if DS1 (autistic0 is rude to me over dinner or about dinner, I take his plate away until he apologises and stops. I'm not a fucking waitress.

qwerty, it's not blackmail, and it's not illegal, and the fact that you have stopped doing it because your 10 year old has told you they don't like it is .... telling... about how worn down you are.

It doesn't matter whether or not he feels it is blackmail. He's not in charge!

Hi Qwertymum. My DD is almost 10 and we are experiencing similar difficulties. Started to see a big difference in her over the last 10 months or so. Agree with imahappycamper that this seems to be related to a growing awareness to being different, experiencing difficulties etc. She is almost completely unable to talk about difficulties and emotions - instead it comes out in behaviour, bottled up and let out at home. We only got ASD DX a couple of weeks ago, and Paed put us onto a day course run by the NAS, called the help! programme. Don't know if you have come across it? It was really good, and they had all sorts of ideas and resources on display. I wrote down some book titles that looked good. I will decipher my notes and post a list tomorrow in case they are helpful. There was also lots of useful info on communication. They gave me a parent manual with a lot of info in it. I will try and post anything else that might be helpful tomorrow too (too tired and info. overloaded to make sense right now! ) Will just say that one thing that looked useful and worth a go, were some cards that the trainer had made for his own DD. Each card was titled e.g. Getting ready for school. On one side in green was the good stuff, with a description of what needed to be done and underneath the Good Consequence, with a description, e.g. if you are ready by x time, you can spend x time doing something you want to before you go to school. You will be happy and mum will be happy and you can have a hug (something like that). On the other side, was the Bad stuff, with a description of the Bad Consequence - e.g. if you are not on time, you won't be able to do want you want to, you will be unhappy, and mum will be unhappy and there won't be time for a hug. I liked the idea that the consequences include reference to feelings too. The trainer from NAS has said he wrote them himself and will email me a copy. If you think it might be helpful and want to CAT me, I will send it to you when it arrives. I am hoping to use it as a starting point to adapt for my DD. The trainer said it helps for them to see it written down, not just said to them. HTH

MelJ and and Querty

the consequence cards MelJ mentions sound very similar to the ones I made a few years ago and gave to our NAS trainer who was conducting a Social Stories seminar. If you CAT me email addresses I can send you mine and you can compare.

MelJ, our of curiosity I'd also be interested to see the NAS version when you get it. Wondering now if they've adapted mine or it's come up with their own. I know when I gave mine to the NAS trainer she said that approach was new to her so it would be interesting to compare.

querty,

I was wondering if your DS actually has a Statement of special needs in place as I think that would help him at school far more than being sent to any anger management class at school's instigation. Clearly they have no idea at all. Your son's difficulties are I would think are mainly due to not being able to cope at all with his environment at home and school, he is now also noticing with increasing intensely that he is "different" from his peer group.
He is not acting like an archetypical abusive person; he is acting like this because he has AS and is not coping.

With the transition to secondary school they need to start preparing him now, not wait until he is in Y6 either.

If there is no Statement in place I would seriously now consider applying for this document as senior school in particular could become extremely difficult for him which in turn will affect your family further.

Querty

Also meant to say I have social stories about Sorry and Blame and Responsibility if you'd like to see them.

I've done a lot of work with my ds on Anger Management and can give you some suggestions there.

As I said, CAT me an email address if you want to know more.

Have to ru nbut will be back alter: have an AS 10 year old with severe anger issues that mean they have asked for 1-1 at all stages in school

Also have half an MA in Autism dso a few ideas- will sahre when kids at school

Qwerty, i said this just the other day on a thread. Ds likes to be in control, as he doesnt view the world the same as us and it must be a pretty scary place. Too much control is just as bad as not enough and getting that balance just right is extremely difficult and something i think we all need to keep adjusting, especially as they get older. Ds is only 6 and I often wonder if i still have all this to come and whether i am dealing with it in the right way.

At home i also use lots of visuals which seem to help with stress levels.

Getting dressed is a pretty stressful and frustrating time for ds and will often result in falling to the floor because he feels he cant do it. We have a visual sequence chart for getting dressed, not because ds doesnt know which item to put on, but it helps to keep him focused, instead of a meltdown.

As i said i dont think there is a wrong or right way, just a way that works for you. It is often a case of trial and error and a combination of techniques that work for different people.

Oh yes ds is very good at negotiating and pointing out the rights and wrongs, he uses this as an avoidance technique. I also use a timer, which means when the bell rings, there is no negotiating, it has to be done.

In school all this outside agency coming to help is all well and good, but is often code for he is their responsibility, not ours!

A day at school, doing the usual things can be quite stressful for a child with ASD. Does he get any practical help in school?

Thanks Streaky, CATing now....

Have replied, MelJ.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I do agree with you Colditz. I haven't stopped using treats as a way of making DS do as he's told, and sending him upstairs to think also means it gives us both breathing space and stops me from killing him.
Its the battle of wills that gets me down, and meeting someone head on over nearly everything gets very wearing.
I need to find a less confrontational way of challenging his behaviour.
Out of both my children DS can be the most affectionate, he is more likely to bring me breakfast in bed for no other reason than because he wants to.
His affection make his abusive outbursts harder to take.
I would be interested in the social stories you mention Streakybacon and when I've worked out how I will CAT you!