ODD or Gifted or Both?

[DebbieC]

I'm looking for advice and help.

I have an 8yr old son who was put on the Gifted & Talented program in his infant school. However he started to become defiant towards some of his teachers. Would come home from school saying he was board etc.

He started Junior School and things went ok. However a term into Yr 3 the school asked me to refer him to see a specialist.

He saw a child physiologist early this year who has diagnosed him as being ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and has Emotional problems which he feels was brought about by the bad handling of him at his infant school.

As his mum I'm absolutely torn. He is ok at home (not the typical ODD child that I've read about - he has his moments but nothing like reported by school) but school is a totally different picture.

He will refuse to cooperate and listen to the teachers. He has been aggressive, argumentative and has thrown a pair of scissors (for which he was excluded from school for 2 days).

Yet he loves school and he loves learning, he's very bright and gets brilliant grades without having to try very hard. This is the part that I feel he is Gifted. I just don't know if I have a Gifted child who has become board and dishearted or if he's just an ODD child at school?

Should he not settle at school I've been informed he could lose his place at school (basically being kicked out), if that happened I really don't know what we'd do. As we both have to work, home schooling isn't an option, so one of my other questions is is the state required to provide a tutor in the situation where a school refuses to have my child?

I've spoken to several private schools, which we would struggle to afford, to see if being in a smaller class would help.

Just really need to air my distress and see if there are any other parents out there facing what I am. My child definitely has issues at school, he's very bright, loves learning, hates missing school yet something is setting him off at school and I can't be there to police him and find out what it is.

We have involved a homeopath, chiropractor, been on parent skill courses to help him at school plus a play therapist, who hopefully will start working with him next week, to try to help sort out why he has problems at school.

He is so lucky we care enough to do everything to help, but I feel if the school do expel him I just don't know where to turn.

Any advice/help gladly received and sorry for long post.

was the child psychologist the ed psych for the school? he needs an ed psych assessment. did they give him full iq assessment using wechsler scales etc? this might give you some idea of whether he would officially be 'gifted' or whether he just came under the 'top 10%' in the infant class. (g&t is a moveable feast depending on how and why it is measured)

have you had a meeting with the school senco? does he have an iep in place (either for g&t or social skills?)

has he had a behaviour plan/ contract drawn up? specifically so that he knows what the boundaries are/ what the consequences are?

if the wechsler testing/ ed psych assessment suggests that he would benefit from more specific differentiation, then this can be built into aforesaid iep. or put into behaviour plan etc.

(i'm curious about blaming the infant school though - what are they supposed to have done/ not done that encourages children to throw scissors?)

it can be helpful to use other parents to put pressure on the school - sometimes a ht needs more evidence to present to the lea to prove a case for additional funding for 1-1 support etc. in this case it can be helpful if other parents visit the school to register their concern at the disruption of their own child's education. in this sort of situation you need to highlight to parents that ds needs support, not excusion, so you need reasonably sympathetic parenbts on board...

Hi madwomanintheattic

Many thanks for your reply.

It was the Child Psychologist he saw at the hospital, as far as I'm aware he hasn't seen an educational psychologist. I will ask about how I can arrange for this to happen.

He has not been tested with the wechsler scales, when he was in infant school (he's now in Yr 3 in Junior School) one of the teachers, who had been on a course, picked him out as G&T.

We have had many meetings with the SENCO at his Junior School. He has had behavioural charts and plans drawn up. However he had been doing well so the charts were stopped as the school was using a traffic light system. Should he do something wrong he would go to amber, then if he continued he'd go to red. However if he did one thing right he'd immediately go to green.

In Infant School his outbursts were handled very badly, from being locked in rooms "for his own safety", to being screamed at by his teacher (I had mum friends at that school who told me about things that had happened there), he was badly manhandled by 4 adults trying to move him out of assembly, and I witnessed teachers pushing him in the playground as they wanted him to go into the hall. I intervened and gave my son the choice to walk nicely now or by the time I counted to 3 - he walked to the hall......

The scissor episode happened last week in Junior school. I can see from all sides how the other pupils, teachers and parents must be feeling. He got angry and threw the first thing to hand, it could have been a rubber, but it was the scissors.

Unfortunately my son ended up at a school in another town and borough and the only parents I know are those who followed us from the infant school after I told them how good the school was as they had as they were given ultimately unsuitable schools for their children (we live in an area that has too many families and far too little schools). I can ask those 4 other parents I know to see if they would support me in getting him extra support.

The school have already said that they have almost exhausted the help they can get from behavioural specialist who had put in someone to work with him one or two afternoons a week. The school also mentioned he was costing them a lot of money.

He is on the SEN Plus register.

Thank you for your help though, I wouldn't have thought about trying to ask for help from the parents or for asking about the IQ testing or to see an eductional psychologist. There seems to much in place for those families who sadly have special needs children but I'm having a very hard time to find anything about children like my son.

It sounds like there has already been a lot of intervention and the school is unable to manage your son's needs from their own resources.

You should consider applying for a statutory assessment of your DS's SEN. There is a template letter on the Ipsea website.

You should also call their helpline and ask for more information and help regarding the exclusion. There are statutory obligations regarding exclusions for pupils with a disability. I am not sure but I think a diagnosis of ODD would be covered.

You may want to contact NAGC for information on the gifted side of things. I'm not sure what kind of support organisation would deal with ODD? Contact A Family may be able to advise you.

Do you feel that ODD is an accurate dx for your DS? How are his social skills? Do you think there may be additional underlying issues? Behavioural problems can be a symptom of a whole range of disorders.

If your son is on the SEN plus register, he has special needs.

I did read somewhere that it is common for gifted childrens behaviour to be mistaken for ADHD behaviour etc. Although it is also possible to be both gifted and have a SN.

Dabrowskis overexcitabilities is an interesting read.

Thank you ladies, your advice is a huge help, I will definitely call the Ipsea, NAGC (we used to have family membership) and Contact a Family.

Oddly enough I was reading about overexcitabilities over the weekend and a lot of the descriptions fit my sons condition very well.

If it wasn't for the fact that my son is 99% normal at home (he will argue with his younger brother but so do "normal" siblings) I would be looking at other conditions.

It just breaks my heart that whatever the trigger is at school I can't fix it. But I'll speak to those organisations this morning and see where that gets me.

I haven't had time to look into what a statutory assessment is but will do after the school run.

Thanks again everyone, it's so touching that you care enough to help and have taken the time to help me - it's is greatly appreciated.