need some MN wisdom

[thecloudhopper]

I spend half of my time with a child with behavioural and social issues. He is fine in school and with a fw blips shows no negative behaviour, sometimes grabs people etc but nothing awful.

Now his mother keeps informing us that she thinks he is autistic will be going for a SCAT test before long but there is a long waiting list and I want your opions.

Can a child have all the difficulties at home and show none ever in school.

For example his mum says he goes home and rocks under the table and cries about all that has gone on in school. Now in school he never ever ever ever rock which his mum says he does daily at home.

Another example his mum says that at home he has a problem with noise ad he reacts badly to it, now in school in assembly, in the playground, when work men have been drilling , when we have vacumed the carpet no no problems then now his mum says he is sensative to noise, now I always thought that if you are sensative to noise you don't pick and choose when you are sensative to noise?

I have other examples but want your viewa, if your child has ASD does he/she only display these behaviours etc at home?

yes, it isn't that unusual for a child with ASD to bottle it all up at school, then act out at home.

Its also not unusual to sometimes have sensory issues (affected by noise) and other times not notice it.

Thanks both for that, but is it unusual to never have these sensory issues in school and only ever display them at home?

It may not be a case of not having the sensory issues outside the home, but a case of not being able to express distress outside the home. sometimes these sensory issues can be a bit screwy - i.e. bigger sounds can trouble less than smaller ones iyswim (e.g. my DS will be upset about water splashing on his face, but fine going on a log flume ride , go figure).

its not unusual, i have noticed after 2 years of learning and studying my DS that alot relates to his anxiety levels. If he is calm he can tolerate alot more than when he is stressed. When we started to notice problems with DS it was actually at school he was acting out and home he was fine. Now he seems to be more settled at school and acts out at home.

Thanks totalchaos, what about the rocking? with regards to day to day would you see behaviours that could be decribed as more atypical autistic behaviours only at home?

You say the child has behavioural and social issues, so obviously he does have some struggles at school??

It may well be that he is storing everything up then letting it all out at home as he doesn't feel he can at school. My DS finds it very hard to verbalise his upset and retreats into his own world at school a lot as a way of coping.

My DS has sensory issues which do also affect him at school, but I find if he is having a very calm day, feels supported, etc certain sensory flash points won't bother him and then other days they can paralise him with fear/discomfort.

Do you not believe this parent in what she is telling you about his behaviours at home??

This is my worst fear as the parent of an autistic child and I would be devasted if one of my son's key workers or teachers felt like this.

He came into school in nursery as a screaming, shoutingchild who would not sit on the carpet, refused to do focused tasks etc but now he joins in in everything, does is work with support, and is doing realy well so the little boy that I started to work with has dramatically changed and is for the most part a wonderful little boy to work with.
Its not that I don't believe his mum but just wanted MNs views.

Thanks all for your help.

My DS1 (Dx with ASD) is similiar- rarely shows sensory difficulties at preschool but does at home. He has been assessed by an OT and I have a report confirming his sensory issues though thankfully his preschool have always taken my word for it. or at least I think they do

For my son, being at preschool maxes him out - he finds social situations overwhelming though does on the whole enjoy them. He literally unravels when we get home - if it has been a good preschool session he will just want to sit and cuddle on my lap. When he was unsettled at preschool due to a few things, he would come home and crawl under a table. Some things have got better so where as before he would be seemingly ok. at preschool but on the passive side, he would then melt-down when he saw me about an undone zip/velcro on his show. He is now able to tell the preschool if things like that bother him though there are still times he sobs and they can#t get out of him what is wrong.

it can also be a case of not recognising the sensory issues, as preschool have said DS1 will retreat under tables there too, which is his usual response to a sensory thing. Also he is way way way over-sensitive to the cold (yet refuses to wear a big coat) so when they had outdoor time in cooler whether he cried so much they stopped taking him out there. They also noted that when they do certain foods, he would move away from the strong smelling ones and be upset at others eating them etc. Yet they officially noted down on his Statement assessment he showed no sensory difficulties. I can see why as they are a)not unusual for his age-group and b) subtle in many areas so you would have to look for it to see it IYKWIM.

Ultimately, as his parent the boy's mum knows her child best and I know I would be quite annoyed if I was being doubted.

As I have said, I would be DEVASTATED if I thought anyone at DS's school doubted be. Thankfully they are all extremely supportive and keen to understand him in all areas of his life.

Maxed out by school is a good way to describe it notfromaroundhere - my DS often won't speak for about an hour after school.

He too used to cry and scream going into preschool and now goes in quietly, school are really pleased with this and see it as progress whereas I see it as quiet and sad resignation at having to go to school everyday . He too now is beginning to join in with school work group work etc as he has class support. This does not mean he doesn't have ASD, it simply means he is practically chaperoned and constantly supported and encouraged to join in and access the curriculum.

At the end of the day we parents know our children and this mother has come and shared her concerns with you as school staff to work with you and keep you up to date and you have doubted her.

Parents of children with ASD are constantly told by family/friends/strangers that their children are 'fine', all kids do that, it's just a phase, it's because you do/don't do x,y,z. The guilt and doubt at this age just eats away at you, you doubt your doubts and worries, your parenting skills, what people think of you....

This thread has made me feel very sad and angry so I think it is best I step away from it for the time being....

DS's behaviour is definitely a lot better in structured social situations than with family! sometimes it's a case of conformity - i.e. the underlying issues remain, but the child is canny enough to change his behaviour to please adults. e.g. when DS was severely lang delayed he would go and sit with the group to listen to a story at nursery, but would be drifting off and not really concentrating.

DS1 spends 3 hours a day at Nursery. He is bright enough and aware enough to cope there, and it is set up to be a good environment for his particular issues. (it's quiet, it's predictable, there are visual schedules, there are puzzles - he's happy.) He comes out absolutely knackered, to the point where he falls asleep standing up, because he works so hard there and there is so much stimulation. And he cries, because he is tired, and lies on the floor because he needs the sensation, and falls over a lot, because he is worn out...

basically, probably 80% of ds1's behaviours that fall outside the bell curve occur outside school.

You sound really sceptical, do you have any reasons for that scepticism?

It's a difficult conversation to have when you try to explain your child has genuine difficulties when you feel the other party are dismissive. Wrt sensory issues, I think part of the problem is they are little understood by people who have had not lived with them or had some training.

I think I'm fortunate that DS1's current preschool are open-minded enough to realise I spend the most time with him and I just hope that when he starts school I will be met with the same attitude. I really do not want a repeat of attitudes like I experienced at his first preschool - it left me wanting to do a Basil routine from Fawlty Towers of trapping my head in a cupboard door and repeatedly slamming it!

Thank you all for sharing the more I as child's LSA know the better equipt I am to help him and his mum.

I would hate to think that my children's LSA approached a discussion board seemingly doubting me as the parent of the child who undoubtedly will know that child best.
I also would want an LSA to have far more knowledge and experience of children with social and behavioural issues if they were to be my child's LSA so am very grateful that my child's statement specifies this.
Am going to walk away now safe in the knowledge that you aren't my child's LSA

This is a very sad thread I agree, but the fact of the matter is that thecloudhopper at least to me seems to be far advanced of the LSA's in my ds' preschool in actually being motivated to explore her lack of training and understanding.

I know it is frustrating to read because it touches a very raw nerve, but I don't really think it is fair to direct anger at thecloudhopper. After all, you can't know what you don't know, and it isn't her fault she doesn't.

I think my worry would be that OP's post contains details that the child's parent might identify and is worded in a way that implies disbelief of the parents' reports.
Also I think a more appropriate way to equip yourself with knowledge would be at least to ask generic questions on a message board .
Far more preferable would be insist on appropriate training and qualifications through the employer.
After all it sounds as though the LSA has been with this child a while yet hasn't been offered nor availed herself of the knowledge that would enhance her ability to support the child.
Not angry specifically at cloudhopper per se but angry for a system that seems to think it ok to to support needy children with unknowledgeable and unqualified support staff.

Okay, I agree with that.

I suppose what it refreshing to see is some honesty I suppose. Someone coming on here and saying 'not sure if I should believe the parents' is infuriating because it represents the ignorance we are all faced with, but on the other hand, it is reassuring to me that I haven't just imagined the ignorance.

How warped is that?

I know exactly what you eman though AW

I do admire the fact that CH asked- I would imagine that someone with very little asd knwoledge could see it as odd; even more so have ehard people deginer disability as something presenting in all settings but we know thats not true

And the nas know that; and the uni asd trainers know that; it just doesn't seem to feed across
Its not the fault of school staff though but the stupid training system teachers have

I think that thecloudhopper has actually shared genuine confusion, not judgement. We as parents of children with SN spend so much of our time on this board bemoaning the lack of knowledge that professionals, people who have trained for years and years to be able to screen, treat & diagnose our children, have. Thecloudhopper is an LSA with, presumably, not a great deal of training or prior knowledge of SN.

So, she has come to a place where she knows she will get expert knowledge, and has gained from it a new understanding of how different children respond to different situations, and how one child can seem so absolutely polarised in their reactions in different settings.

Thecloudhopper, in general sensory processing difficulties can affect any child with SN. My DD1 does not have ASD as a dx, but she has 'definite differences' in the way she processes almost every sense.

As an example, her preschool went on a farm trip last year, and when a piglet squealed, she got such a shock that she fell over backwards. Very extreme.

My heart sinks when I hear the words "she's had a really good session" at pick-up time, because I know that my afternoon is going to be traumatic and exhausting - she just can't be 'good' all day, it is too much for her, so I know we will get sensory meltdowns at home if she hasn't had them at preschool.

"if you are sensative to noise you don't pick and choose when you are sensative to noise? "

by school age, the original biological problem will be so mixed up with anxiety and with the whole dynamic of his relationship with his mum versus the relationships with staff that it will all have got quite confusing for an observer I guess. If you'd known him when he was, say, 9 months old, it all would have been so much easier to see.

True lIngle. Also even if it hurts you in school you may not be confident enough to show it there and need to wait until you get home; or have increased fultering issues when over stimulated.

School didn't beleive us with ds1 until it all changed and school becmae a primary outlet for his stress. In the next ten days we go to review where school are asking for lunch and break 1-1 to keep others safe: asd is far from a static entity!