Confidence in the SEN system

[Eva77]

Hi, I work in the field of SEN and with parents whose children are going through the statementing process. I have seen first hand how stressful it can be being the parent of a child with an SEN and am seeking to make improvements locally in the service that is offered. I have some ideas of my own about what might help eg: clear simple language and explanations of the process and what's on offer, a proper time frame with frequent updates on progress, an empathetic, non-judgemental attitude towards parents, practical support with form filling, understanding letters etc and ideally a single named person who would be the family contact to guide and support parents throughthout their child's education. I would welcome the views/comments of any Mumsnetters on what might help increase their confidence in SEN and the statementing process in general. Obviously I can't promise any national changes, but perhaps I could make things better for the parents I deal with!

I totally agree with Militantendency:

'The one, fundamental improvement in the SEN system would be the separation of the assessors of SEN from the providers. This was recommended to the Government by a select committee in 2006, but the recommendation was ignored and the Lamb Inquiry have not made it on of the recommendations.

The LEA are both judge and jury and this just does not work. '

I also cannot fathom how I am supposed to have faith in my local Parent Partnership when:

a) they work out of the same office as the SEN Team at the LEA

b) PP staff sometimes sit on tribunal cases in support of the LEA

They are NOT impartial and it is totally wrong of the government to suggest that they are.

Oh, and where is the provision for children like my son? If you are bright and have behavioural difficulties there is nowhere for you. No special schools anywhere near me that cater for him. Mainstream can barely cope without the sort of 1:1 support that the LEA are unwilling to provide, even with a statement. I'll tell you what happens to children like mine eventually. They get excluded and sent to pupil referral units. They fail at school and cause a hell of a lot more of a financial burden to society than the cost of good 1:1 support and properly trained professionals would have cost.

I am with APassionateWoman its the system that needs addressing. Its is wholly unfair and totally impartial. LEAs and schools frequently operate illegally and their practices not overseen by a separate body.

My child could probably go on to get 5 A-C GCSEs if she starts gettig some help soon (she's only year 3) but she's falling further and further behind because support has so far been denied.

I was a little naive at first and fell for the usual lies ie "if your child needed help then the TA would be assigned to give it to her", "only children with very severe disability or in the bottom 10% nationally are entitled to be statement", "epilepsy is an illness therefore her learning issues associated cannot be statemented", "as she has epilepsy she cannot see an ed psyche she needs an assessment by the neuro impairment team", "she's made her 2/3 year progress so cannot apply for an assessment", "i've sent the single service request form to the LA" etc etc

WE're in the process of moving to an area where the school are more SN friendly and the LEA reputedly less difficult than my current LEA.

It is good to know that there are people in the system who do care and want to help. It's a shame there aren't more like you. But what we really need is a reform of the system so that you are not hindered in helping the children that you want to.

I am coming a bit late to this thread, and most of what I want to say has already been said 9but that won't stop me saying it again )

I do not need more confidence in the SEN system. In theory (ha!) it works just fine, with tailor made statemnts to address each child's speciific needs, and support put in place at the earliest opportunity

Goodness me - I am honestly truly shocked at the strength of feeling I have unleashed. To read words like 'lies', ?deliberately?, ?bullying?, ?illegal?, ?severely rationed?, ?unfair? etc is a real indicator of the levels of anger and despair out there. This is a much greater problem than I had ever realised. Now I am wondering if my LA are 'better' than yours or whether there are parents in my area who feel equally aggrieved.

I feel I should say right at the start that I would like to apologise to madwomaninthe attic - you are quite right - I should have said 'there is not as much funding as parents would like to see' - but I am sure you understood what I meant.(blush)

It seems to me reading these posts that SEN, like the NHS, is a bit of a postcode lottery. Some areas do seem to administer the system differently to others. For example cory I have personal knowledge of pupils in my area whose only SEN is physical but who have statements ? surely if a child cannot access the curriculum (because of a physical disability) they cannot make adequate progress? Bigcar - I am certain too that you will a find that some schools do place a higher emphasis on SEN and spend more of their school budget on it than others. It does pay to shop around and ask the appropriate questions. However I do take the point that not everyone is in a position to vote with their feet. Mind you, if you have a statement you are entitled to insist on the school of your choice and might then be entitled to transport from the LA if you cannot get there. ( I bet that opens a whole new can of worms:0)

AngryWasp ? (you have every right to the name) I am appalled at the battle you are having to fight. I had no idea some parents were being short changed in this way by their LAs. Even if a service (like music therapy) isn?t currently available in your area (and therapists are in short supply) then I can?t see why it can?t be added in to the statement with a proviso of ?when it can be made available? or similar. I can see however that the benefit a therapy like this brings is often hard to quantify or demonstrate in concrete terms and so proving it?s efficacy could be very difficult. Once again the LA will be looking to spread the budget as fairly as possible and the long term value of some forms of support are hard to demonstrate. Also I would argue that terms like ?some? are not specific ? ?some? can be anything from 5 minutes to 5 hours! My advice to you would be to give it a few months once you have a statement and then insist on an early review (you don?t have to wait the full year) and demand to be shown what progress your child is making with the current level of provision. If it is shown that progress is inadequate ask for the statement to be ammended. (I have to say that my experience here is of mainstream only and it sounds as if your child may be in a specialist provision?)

Anonandlikeit ? you make a very valid point about SENCo training ? and of course fairly comprehensive training for new SENCos is now provided. However as we all know some people are just better at their job than others and SENCos are often overstretched. One of the things I was wondering about was whether parents would appreciate having a single independent named coordinator to be responsible for their child?s case throughout their entire education (? perhaps a bit like having a social worker), one person who would co-ordinate the work of all the involved agencies on the child/parent?s behalf and who had some clout to move things forward. The difficulty with this would be deciding at what point a child became entitled to a coordinator. You could really only do this for those children for whom a statement was in place/under consideration as otherwise there would be too many.

APassionateWoman ? well therein lies the case against inclusion doesn?t it? I personally don?t feel that inclusion is the answer for all SEN pupils, for some it only means they are under the same roof. The closure of all but the PMLD type schools has left us without appropriate school facilities for some pupils. I sympathise with your dilemma and it is a dilemma for mainstream schools too ? how do you cater for the needs of the very challenging pupils in a mainstream environment without it being to the detriment of the other pupils? Even with 1:1 support some pupils cannot be managed, especially once they get older. I agree though that exclusion and referral to PRUs is definitely not the answer ? more specialist facilities and staff are needed.

Well once again I would like to thank everyone who has contributed a comment to my original question. You have shown me that beforehand I had only seen the ?tip of the iceberg?. I have the greatest respect for all of you who are obviously so determined and dedicated to achieving the best education you can for your children.

?Mother Love? eh? Nothing can equal it ? good luck to you all!

Hi, I'm new here, but have 16 yrs sen teaching practice, and 3 yrs secondment in an Lea .... if you want to blame anyone, as usual, blame the govt!
Not to get too technical, but when they issued the new code of practice 2000/1 they had a golden opportunity to make certain things LAW, but chose to make them guidelines that an LEA ?must have regard to?. Why? If they had listed in detail what every LEA must DO it would be so expensive, the system would collapse.
Education is underfunded as it is. LEAs get a finite pot of money, and if one child needs a big slice of it, then everyone elses slice is that bit smaller. That, coupled with the fact that sen tribuals cost a huge amount of money, and if children get sent out of county it costs thousands ..... you see where I'm going with this. Yes, it's a postcode lottery, and depends on how savvy the class teacher is, and the local LEAs policies, but IMHO it's a crippled system dragging itself along as best it can in many areas I'm afraid. I would quote Mary Warnock here, but I wouldn't want to bore you any furher

Brian Lamb, read this thread and weep. Your no doubt well meaning review and report have done NOTHING to improve the SEN system.

It is fundamentally flawed and needs completely overhauling, which none of the political parties seem to have in their manifestos!

Amen. SEN isn't on most people's spectrum. It's not a major vote-winner - let's face it.
IMHO It's much too complicated to explain to a lay person. I should add that those I worked with in the LEA at the coalface were lovely, harworking and well-meaning. Some also had children with SEN themselves. I have seen both sides, and reached the conclusion that the only kids getting a good deal were those in Special Schools (where I now work). When I was an SEN teacher in mainstream I spent 9 years pssng against the wind! About once every 3 years you felt you had ACTUALLY made a difference to someone's life. Most Special Schools are lucky - they get to control their own budgets, and don't have to balance the cost of new windows against paying for one child's extra support, but there still isn't enough money. That's why we do sponsored bike rides, sell dvds of the Christmas concert ...... if I didn't have a baby to be responsible for tonight, I'd be hitting the bottle now (grin)

Dammit - should be

spiky - bit harsh. dd2 is a mainstream kid, statemented for a physical disability. she's had a pretty good deal, and we've had amazing support staff to date.

although i do have to say that after she finished yr r (her two older siblings attended the infant school, so she was part of the 'family package' lol) the ht was slightly bemused to find a queue of sn parents forming as far as the eye could see.

she called it being 'a victim of our own success' and could literally see her budget disappearing before her eyes. success is possible in ms, but spreading funding too thinly does no-one any favours.

Your situation is a bit different. I'm referring specifically to those with learning difficulties. Physical disability does not warrant a statement in this lea. I keep forgetting the situation can be so hugely different from one county to another.
The biggest issue with mainstream is that the 'pot' of money earmarked for one child is not ringfenced. That means that if the class computer blows up, the head can use that money to buy a new one, and justify this by saying that the child in question can use it (sometimes).
There are worse examples. There are other exmples of excellent use of funds. It is down to how cash-strapped a school is, and the head's priorities with regards to SEN. I agree that on the whole if you have a physical disability, mainstream is absolutely the best place, provided the SENDA accessibility issues are addressed.

Eva

To answer your question specifically, my child is in mainstream with moderate-severe autism, an inexperienced and untrained 1:1 for 'some' of the time, abandoned for the rest, and a asd nursery nurse visit for 1.5 hours per week. No OT, ONE SLT visit in 2 terms.

He is not in special school. He has a statement. We are being forced to wait 5 months during which time he is being failed, in order to go to tribunal.

I understand your point about music therapy, but I had professional backing on this. And despite it's ambiguity, it was a hellova lot concrete in terms of outcomes than any of the alternatives that they are insisting WILL meet his needs.

(and fwiw, there is another therapy that most definately has very concrete measures and outcomes that they are refusing to fund)

"PP staff sometimes sit on tribunal cases in support of the LEA"

APassionateWoman - In what capacity are they asked to sit on tribunal cases? I thought PP staff received some basic training on SEN but weren't professionals in any way?

"LEAs get a finite pot of money, and if one child needs a big slice of it, then everyone elses slice is that bit smaller."

Spikypiixie - I understood that there was some kind of ringfencing of SEN funding, for those requiring independent special schools, especially residential schools? So that in practice, a child requiring an expensive residential placement shouldn't directly affect, say, children in mainstream on SA. It doesn't make sense for it all to come out of one pot, because LAs can never predict if they will have a severely disabled child who will need a 24hr curriculum.

Thank you AngryWasp - I am sorry you are having such difficulties and I can understand how angry the situation must be making you feel. 5 months is a long time in a child's life. I take your point about TAs - TAs have become the norm as a method of supporting the inclusion policy and whilst some are excellent, experienced and very talented there is no requirement for someone employed as a TA to have any prior qualifications. The pay is disgraceful and often only covers 'contact' time and school term time. It isn't a living wage so the pool of people applying is shallow and in some cases their committment reflects their level of pay (I must make it clear here that that comment is not intended as a slight to the many highly dedictated TAs who do a marvellous job, work loads of hours they are not paid for and go out of their way to learn about SEN in their own, unpaid, time).I don't suppose it will help much to tell you that I have known pupils with moderate to severe autism who do reach secondary school and achieve decent qualifications. Yes it's a struggle and it's not plain sailing but your son will survive; although I know that you will say that he shouldn't have to 'get by' and should have a better level of provision than he has at present. I accept that proving a particular therapy will help in preference to what is on offer is an uphill struggle and if what you are asking for is more costly than something else, getting it will be a real battle.
sugarcandymountain - money is given to schools for SEN in general - ie SA, SA+ and statemented pupils and schools spend that as they see fit (within the bounds of reasonableness of course.) Statemented pupils also have an additional level of funding which increases according to their level of need which is spent purely for that pupil (and usually funds their TA/specialist support).

"For example cory I have personal knowledge of pupils in my area whose only SEN is physical but who have statements ? surely if a child cannot access the curriculum (because of a physical disability) they cannot make adequate progress?"

Fortunately, my dd is both bright and hardworking. But then she has to be, having been through a primary school that offered her no help whatsoever: she was left sitting on her own in the classroom during maths lessons for an entire term because her set was in an upstairs classroom, the head did not want to go through the bother of changing the rooms of the different sets, the teacher thought she shouldn't be put in a different set, noone wanted to actually do anything- so she was just left sitting there with worksheets and no supervision. When we found out and complained, the explanation of the school was that dd "refused" to make her way upstairs. She was in a wheelchair, she couldn't walk, of course she refused. The head's idea was that she ought to get out of the wheelchair and crawl!

In fact, crawling was how she accessed the toilet for an entire year because the head wanted to keep the disabled toilet locked up and only for the use of visitors. Dd did not tell us these things for a long time as she was afraid of getting into trouble. When I finally got suspicious and asked how she went to the loo, she burst into tears and said "don't ask".

When I talked to the head about dd's medical absences, his response was "well, we do accept that Corydd is ill but you can't expect us to be happy about it".

She is now at secondary school where she is getting support: unfortunately she has been so traumatised by her experience at primary that she is now having major problems with school refusal and has been self-harming.

Ds is now at the same school where dd had the bad experiences. It is a better school under a new head, but we had to wait a year to have the OTs recommendations implemented and even so, it is only going to happen because we have offered to pay for everything. It took us 4 months to get an appointment to see the SENCO (!). The teacher and the SENCO do seem to want to help now and I think they will be good, but the teacher's initial response was that ds wouldn't really need the help the OT said he had to have "because he is not doing worse academically than some of the other children".

I did ask Social Services about the statementing process and they agreed that this is wrong and that I should query it, but said they couldn't hold out much hope as this LEA does have rather a poor track record for disability provision. Quite frankly, I have spent so much of the last 6 years fighting for help for dd, and now I have the second disabled child coming up through the system (fight for diagnosis, fight for OT, fight for out-of-catchment secondary school, fight for transport)- there is only so much fighting I can do. It is easier to throw money at the problem- seeing that I do have a little money. Tough for those who haven't.

Thanks Eva77. I understand that statemented pupils get additional funding which is separate. But I've heard that LAs put pressure on parents to demand less in the way of provision in statements by saying that other pupils will lose out if they get that provision. I'm not sure if this is true. If an LA has to fund, say, an independent special school place for one pupil, they surely can't simply cut the budget for other pupils, statemented or not?

I can see you are trying to be reassuring Eva and I appreciate it.

I do know that TA's are undertrained and poorly paid. I cannot fault ds' TA for loveliness. In fact, I cannot fault her for trying. I CAN however, fault the HT for not allowing us to train her. I CAN fault the LA for insisting that she will meet his needs with her current level of training. I CAN fault the SENCO when all things went wrong for confidentially blaming it all on the undertrained poorly paid TA.

I know it is possible for my ds to achieve good grades, but without specialist input now he is going to be a social isolate and very very unhappy.

I would like to ask you a question however, about your intentions. I can see that you are probably focussing your attention on the harder to reach parents and that is a good thing no doubt, but I wonder if you have considered why LA's are so concerned with harder to reach parents when there are very easy to reach parents that they swating down like flies. It would seem to me that the LA prefers to engage with parents on their terms only, so the ones who don't want to engage are encouraged, but the ones who do are told to hop off.

Why not use these easy to reach parents as a vehicle for catching the harder to reach ones? They do share news/knowledge etc at the school gates. Why not include expert parents to participate in provision, training, knowledge imparting? Why not engage the local childcare/training/universities in provision as a free or cheap resource?

And finally, direct resources more at parents rather than schools, and support parents in training/educating the schools. Professional endorsement of a parent's plight will have a massive impact on provision for many children and break down the barriers between schools and parents which is currently made far worse by LA involvement.

Hello Eva

As a mum whose little boy aged just 5 has recently been diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum - to have a a forum like this where there are experienced, caring, informative, intelligent people giving and sharing their experiences and views is just invaluable.

So far any 'help' we have got is because we have had to source it out ourselves. Or find out from this site. The teachers in his school are sweet but so young with little experience. The senco is totally lacking any compassion and doesn't seem like a clever person or interested in helping. To work in a position like this you have to be pro-active, supportive and on the ball. This is a maize - half the people I speak to say well he's so young he'll change a lot and the other half so glad you caught when he's young for intervention!! I see the whole statement process ahead of me and all I get from the school is impression that we should keep our mouths closed and that we're lucky to have him in mainstream in the first place.

If people become too insistent or push too much for the rights of their child then the head send out a letter to ban the parents from the school ground. I'm exhausted already and can't deal with this pressure when they should be helping us not against us.

Well done eva for being interested and keep in on this site these mums really know what they are on about.

take care m x

No one seems to be getting anywhere even when you do get legal lawyers to fight it they still then turn up saying they are better off going far away to a special school the government none of them want to help.Its a waste of time trying I have been fighting it and have come to the conclusions its a waste of time and resource and years instead of enjoying my son.They should give us vouchers so then we can get the help they need in the school and not keep on wasting all that money employing useless senco in the department of education.Useless meetings where they are all earning extra money attending when you know the money is spent on their wages instead of your child.

Coming to this a bit late but dd2 is on SA+ and through school changes etc we have had no trouble maintaining that. Her needs are pretty minimal 15 mins a day small group/1:1 speech work. Yet I have seen others on here desperate for their child to be on anything and not getting it with much more severe needs.

Through my work I have come across children not getting statements due to v minor things ( & LEA denying receiving paperwork ) and it is v common knowledge that it is really due to the budget running out in the summer.

I also feel that the LEA should be making more checks that the money is spent appropriatly and in line with the statement as I also see many parents who see no improvement in provision despite increases in statements.

Think you have said it all gibrock. Until parents get power as well as the responsibility they will carry on spending our money on themselves.