We have a statement - but no school (help)

[sc13]

We managed to get a statement that (to me) looked rather good: good number of hours, lots of specifics, caseworker seems on the ball.
DS starts reception in January and has ASD.
Now, one of the schools we liked (we named 3, after visiting everything in the area) said they can't meet DS's needs because the statement provisions are not enough.
DH and the case-worker think they're trying to get even more hours from the LEA, but how likely is that to happen? Is the LEA going to give us more hours just because the school says so?
What if the other two schools also say no? Above all, what if we end up at the horrible school that asked me, when I said that DS had special needs, 'why, what is wrong with him?' and then proceeded to recommend I go somewhere else because he wouldn't fit in?
Panic panic panic - has anyone else been there, done that and come out of the other side relatively unscathed?

The school can meet his needs IF they want to, its up to the school & lEA to argue shuffling of funds in to budgets.
All schools will be obliged under LEA policy to fund some support, your LEA will be able to tell you how many hours the school must provide.

I echo what Pipinjo said, the school must want your ds there for it to work, otherwise I would look elsewhere.
MS inclusion is much more about attitude than anything else.

Hi Sc13

Just decide on teh school that you think could best ,eet your child's needs as stated in teh Statement 0 then leave it to the LA case worker to get your child admitted.

Schools cannnot refuse to take a child simply because they have SENs. They can refuse to admit a child if they feel they cannot meet their needs. However if they do so the LA will put pressure on them to accept as to do otherwise may mean your child has no provision and the LA will not want to fund expensive independant alternative.

It looks as though you are caught in an internal battle between the school you want and the LA over funding. School are trying to get more and LA are holding out.
THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM - so as I said just tell LA which school you want and sit back and wait.

Best wishes

Thank you so much! I feel like we have been so lucky getting a statement at all that I have no right to complain.
We have given LEA the names and reasons for 3 schools we want (and tbh there are others in the area I'd be happy with too), so (thank you WetAugust) the mantra is 'This is not my problem' at least until I calm down a little
DH (who is remarkably cool about this) says he'll call the NAS if all three turn us down. Didn't know about SOSSEN but I'll check it out tomorrow.
Thank you!!

Have bookmarked SOS Sen (looks very useful). And also have actually gone from being panicky to being angry. I may be deluded, but I see DS an asset to any school that will bother to get to know him a little. Primary education is a right for all, I'm angry that I should be made to feel like I have to beg for someone to give him the education he is entitled to
rant rant rant

Hello

We have just had a meeting with a very experienced lady from 'Ealing Parent Partnership and
Hammersmith & Fulham Parent Partnership'. They cover a good block of West London and act as a link person between parent's/LEA/School - giving a wealth of advice to us. Perhaps they could help you too. - number 020 8840 9099

Take care m x

Thanks guys - fullstop we are bound to meet at some point my DS is the one running around in a yellow coat

The school can't turn you down, just try and put you off. In those circumstances you have to think whether you'd want him to go to a school who is doing their utmost to put you off. Sometimes though there is a difference between the 'school' and the teachers iyswim.

The best you can do is visit visit visit and talk talk talk until you are certain.

hth

Yeah - my little man is usually dressed as spider man and I'll the looney running after him!

take care m x

AngryWasp you forgot to say 'and WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING
Seriously, I wish I had written down in detail the surreal exchanges at some of the school visits (and visits and visits, I saw some 20 schools). At least now I'd have something in writing to try avoiding the handful of schools where I really really really don't want DS to end up

SC13: My son has ASD
Lady at school: Do you mean he will need help going up and down the stairs?
SC13 looks at her in wonder
Lady at school, relieved: Don't worry, we have a few of those.

No need is there?

Thanks for the replies to this - a quick update. Almost a month on, and still none of the 3 schools we indicated would take us on (despite a statement with 20 hours of 1:1, SALT provisions, etc.).
Then one of the 3 schools, to which we had applied through the 'normal' application process too, wrote to offer us a place. What I think has happened is that we were on their waiting list, and we've gone up. Since they're a community school, the offer of a place comes centralized from the LA, and evidently they haven't double-checked that this is the same kid the school says they can't cater for.
What do we do?

1. Can the school change their minds once they discover that we are the same people whom they are trying to turn down, or is the LA offer letter legally binding?
2. Do we really want DS to go to a school that, basically, aren't exactly enthusiastic about having him?
3. If this was a question of getting more hours on the statement, can the school still apply for more hours after they've accepted DS? I know there are a lot of expert MNetters out there - I can no longer think straight...

Sc13

Sorry to hear about the stalemate you seem to have forced on you.

I would have thought that most schools could provide the provision you son needs i.e. they can hire an LSA, buy in SALT etc.

So the question is why are they all turning him down?

The LA wil have sent his proposed Statement to each of these schools. they will have read the underpinning reports. i can only suggest that each of these schools think the provision stated in his Statement is actually insufficient and he needs more support than the LA have stated in the Statement. That would not surprise me as LAs tend to get away with providing as little as possible.

So you need to ask yourself whether you think the provision in the Statement is adequate?

Do you have any written evidence from thse schools as to why they have trned him down?

Does the school that is offering a place know his needs - it sounds as though they haven't realised they have turned him down once already. I'm wondering if it would be good for him to go to a school that has alraedy turned him down - but only you can be the judge of whether that school could manage if the support in the Statement was available to your child there.

The LA has a duty to find you a school that is @appropraite to your child's age and ability and can meet the needs stated in his Statement'. So far they have failed to do that.

I would write a very strong ltter to the LA reminding them of their duty and threatening them. That's not too strong a word. I would tell them they had 14 days to name a school or you would ask for an emergnecy SENDIST hearing and would also initiate a complaint with the Local Governement Ombudsman for maladministration - and that's what the LA are doing by unnecessarily dragging out this process and failing to name a suitable school. I would also ask for a copy of each school's response to the LA's request for them to admit your son - you are entitled to see those.

So in answer to your questions:

1. The offer is binding once it has been accepted.

2. Only you can judge what the effect would be of sending him to a school that has already stated it cannot meet his needs

3. School can review his Statement at any time and ask for additional hors however with an intransigent LA they are unlikely to get them so it would be for you to initiate a review and ask for additional hours - and that could result in a SENDIST hearing if the LA refuse to give more.

So my approach would be the 'haevy' ltter - it shows them you know your rights and that you are fed up with their stupid nonsense.

AND - you need to do thsi very soon as the LA will not be able to consult with possible schools while they are closed over the summer break

Best wishes

I am in a similar(ish) position in that none of our local schools would offer DS a place, although DS is older (secondary school).

In the end I realised that DS really needs an out of area independent specialist school, which means residential.

All of the letters from other schools saying that they could not meet his needs are now useful evidence to show that the independent school is the only appropriate school for him.

I suspect that if you find an expensive independent school or even one out of county, the LA will manage to convince one of the local schools to offer a place to your DS, possibly with the extra hours. Paying for an out of area/independent school is going to cost them much more than additional hours. The LA often put pressure on schools to offer SEN places if it means they can avoid paying for out of county placements.

Agree totally Sugar Candy

That's what Sc13 should do - write that letter and include a threat to request an independant placement. That'll get things moving

Thank you for this - the caseworker has actually arranged a SENDIST meeting for next week, and then the offer letter arrived before that could take place.
The caseworker also said that none of the schools had replied formally, they only just said informally 'not enough hours' or 'we've already got a child with ASD starting, we can't cater for another one' (which is I know illegal).
DH and I have been disagreeing about the approach to take; he thinks the caseworker is doing her best, I think we should have threatened weeks ago. What is funny is that we chose those schools because they have a good rep for SEN. If it comes to that, I'll turn to the small posh schools where I thought DS wouldn't fit in - I now feel bad that I made the wrong choice of schools despite weeks of visits and enquiries.
TBH I don't think DS needs more hours - he's actually making progress at nursery on SA+. Of the other kids with ASD we know, the non-verbal child didn't even get assessed, the self-harming kid with strong sensory issues got 16 hours, DS who talks, follows instructions, reads FFS got 20 hours. None of this makes any sense, does it?

The 20 hours may only work out at 10-15 hours support in real terms though once , meeting and planning time has been taken out by the school. Ask the schools what hours they would accept your son on perhaps?

I'm surprised that the schools haven't replied formally. When schools for DS were consulted, they were all sent a copy of his statement as WetAugust describes, with a cover letter asking them to reply within a certain time. I received copies of all the response letters - I had to specifically ask my caseworker for them.

The cover letter said mentions the SEN COP (schedule 27 of Education Act 1996), saying that the LA must comply with parental preference unless the school is unsuitable, or if it would not be compatible with the education of the other pupils at the school, or if it would not be an efficient use of resources.

It also mentions the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001. It says that it is up to the school to demonstrate reasonable grounds for not being named in Part 4.

I would make a DPA request to the LA asking for the consultation letters and responses received. It sounds as if they're not following the correct procedures to me.

You could also consider writing to the schools directly, from the point of view of a concerned parent, asking what kind of support they have available for children with SEN. You've probably asked all the relevant questions already (which will mean that they might be on their guard) but it would be better to have their response in writing.

You could also write and ask for each schools' SEN Policy - they have to provide it if you ask for a copy. It will, at the very least, make them aware that you know what should be happening.

SC13

My DD1 starts Reception in Sept. WE too have just received our statement which is 20 hours + SALT. School have confirmed that they will make up the hours so he has full time support for all the time he is there. The schools do have additional money in their SEN budget but I guess they all spend it (or not as the case may be) as they see fit. Good luck with your school and hope you get the one that suits best.

Again, thanks y'all. The hours are on the statement - honestly, from what I can see and talking to others who applied to the same LA we thought we'd hit the jackpot. It is too late to appeal - it's been a month and a half now.
I have no idea why the schools (they are all MS by the way) turned around the way they did - I remember talking to the SENCO for one of them (she's also Deputy Head), and she was all like, if your DS's got a statement, fine, otherwise we'll do our best to get funds for him even without a statement blah. I wish I had taped that phone call.
The HT at another one took DS's name down, and feigned extreme interest in the fact that he could count to 100.
I feel such a fool now - once we had the statement in hand I honestly thought any school would be over DS grace their cohorts.

You have two months to appeal, from the date of the letter accompanying the final statement.

Even if you don't feel he does need more hours, lodging an appeal could put it up on the LA's radar. You can always withdraw it further along the line - but if you don't appeal within the time limit, you won't get a second chance...

Has the statement actually been finalised? If it has, then I thought there should be a school named in Part 4 already? What is written in Part 4 at the moment?

"I have no idea why the schools (they are all MS by the way) turned around the way they did"

Is it possible that the schools felt they could meet your DS's needs based on your verbal description of him when you visited, but changed their minds once they saw the paperwork? Are there any appendices which are more negative about your DS than you'd describe him? Do you think the description of him in the statement/reports is accurate?

Thank you for that, I didn't realize about the two months to appeal. I'm actually so clueless, I went and re-read the proposed statement (it hasn't been finalised yet, precisely because we haven't been able to complete part 4) and realized that it does not say explicitly that the 20 hours have to be 1:1. I had caught a detail in the SALT provisions, and had the phrasing changed from 'up to 4 sessions a term' to '4 sessions a term', and was very proud of myself for that, but the 1:1 I took to be there implicitly, whereas everything needs to be explicit...
Damn. In the meanwhile, DH has gone and accepted the offer from one of the schools (the same one that turned us down), and there should be a SEN hearing on DS's case tomorrow, so the chaos is going to become even more chaotic...
Thank heavens for MN and all you good people out there