Is autism an mental health issue?

[AngryWasp]

Sorry if I'm being dense but it is a physical disability, so why are CAMHS sometimes involved, or does autism 'cause' mental health.

I don't geddit. I suppose I have this to come?

Why is it a physical disability?

Sorry that should have read, why do you think it's only a physical disability?

I'm puzzled too.
Asperger's is a Social Communication Disorder, nothing physical about it.

This is a quote from the Every Child Matters part of the DCSF website;

Child and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS) promote the mental health and psychological well-being of children and young people, and provide high quality, multi-disciplinary mental health services to all children and young people with mental health problems and disorders to ensure effective assessment, treatment and support, for them and their families.

I suppose children with autism come under the "psychological well-being" and "disorders" bits of that sentence.

My DD1 was referred to CAMHS for anxiety which is a mental health issue but as a result of her diagnosis my DD2 has been referred purely because of concerns about possible Asperger's.

It does seem to be an inappropriate name and one which certainly didn't help DD1 want to go there.

I think it is a very fine line, but I tend to make a difference between a neurological condition (which I take autism to be) and a mental illness. Obviously, the first does not rule out the second - a person with autism may suffer from depression, for instance. But does the second imply the first? I think it is not yet entirely clear whether all mental illnesses have a physiological (or, more specifically, a neurological) basis, or, if they do, how that interacts with other factors. The usual nurture/nature, mind/body issue.
A possible distinction is that people are born with autism (although it may be detected later), but are people born with depression? Bipolar disorder? But then again there's schizophrenia, which most people would now agree has a genetic component.
A very complex and interesting question...

ASD and mental health are related for certain- people with AS for example more likely to receive a dx of depression; ds1 finally referred today to ED team

And Psychs are usually invovled with a DX

Indeed, DSm is a psychiatric diagnostic manual

The ley I think is tio remember a great many psychological disorders have a physical aetiology: think schizophrenia and gentic predisposition for example. I know some people think Psych as in wibbly MH non tangible stuff but really there are physical causes or damages involved in a great many disorders

Alzheimers is often dealt with by a MH team

PND by a MH team

Pesonality problems following breain surgery or dmage from eg tumours by MH team

So really teh answer isn;'t that ASD shoudln'yt fall under MH but that our understanding of what is coverd by MH needs to be expanded

Of course, if someone only ahs access to a PSych then there is an issue: there are needs invovled by the bucketload- sensory, OT, Pt. But that only means psych should be invovled as part of a package, rather than excluded IYSWIm

FWIW the best eprson we have by far is the Psych who sees DH and I and who has just accepted ds1 for his eating disorder, I trust her.

I thi8nk there is evidence btw wrt to depression and OCD etc- indeed a link between OCD and asd is looked at in some depth these days isn't it?

And some evidence apaprenlty to suggest people with depression and OCD are more likely to have a child with ASD (DH has depression, MIL OCD)

'And some evidence apaprenlty to suggest people with depression and OCD are more likely to have a child with ASD (DH has depression, MIL OCD) '

That's really interesting, you wouldn't have a link to info would you?

Our understanding of what is covered by MH needs to be expanded Amen to that
At the same time, I am worried that (perhaps more in the USA than here) finding a physical aetiology for something often translates as, throwing pills at the problem.
That works for some things, but IMO even with conditions like depression and schizophrenia drugs should be part of the therapy, not 'the' therapy

Sorry, not trying to upset anyone. It is defined as a physical disability by DLA I think.

Since we're here, as it were, does anyone know what's the status of the 'broken mirror' theory of autism?

SO what age do they have to be for CAHMS to be involved?

It hastto be defined as physical disability by DLA as they would do sod all otherwise, but physical and brain are linked I think

WRT to depression etc will have a look later, soemthing in a handout soemwhere I think, and check EBSCO. Deffo soemthing we covered at Uni. Have house inspection tomorrow (yuck) so knee deep in flash atm (boo- and have a n essay on therapies for enxt week LOL)

And the chuck a pill at it scenario- goodness yes, absolutely. Medical Model and all that. There is a need for meds to be developed in some areas- am sure I am not the only one who would lilke a side effect free one for aggression for example- but the happy medium sits somewhere between medical and social I think. Why is it that happy mediums, whilst almost always the best answer toe very dilemma, are rarely teh actual ones used?

Thanks Clarissimo, good luck with the essay/house inspection stuff.

Oh NW if you met me no not upset LOL, nice to debate I think. I have some background in MH care and public preconceptions of the role are so vastly different to real life.

My general impression of most conditions whatever class they fall in is they are a mix of genetics and environment (genetics at its subtlest level).

BTW wrt to MN debates do you know that reading MN mainly I was described as one ofthe best informed people a professional ASD Psych ahd met? LMFAO

I'd be happy with a side-effect-free pill for excess screaming in public places. An alternative to the physical remedy that starts with an m and has two z-s in it. Which I often think about.
Flash has apparently been superseded in the hierarchy of fantastic products by Cillitbang

Cilotiband stinks LOL

I like hyancinth fragranced zoflora but for got to put it on shopping list dammit.

Place stinks of paint anyway LOL so would be a waste!

'Sorry, not trying to upset anyone. It is defined as a physical disability by DLA I think'

Thanks for the information AngryWasp, I didn't know that, as I don't claim DLA for DS.

I suppose that as you are exposed to experiences that are difficult given your sensory and processing issues and/or you become aware that you are "different", then you are highly likely to suffer from anxiety at the very least.

btw also a link between family history of bipolar and kids with ASD.

lingle - I have at the very least AS traits, could potentially have been DXed had I been at school today rather than 20 years ago. I would agree that the difficulty fitting in and awareness of this difficult was a huge factor in my developing an anxiety disorder.

I guess it is a physical disability if your child can not dress them self, can't brush their teeth ect (surely those are physical things), dd1 has physical problems but these are more linked with her low muscle tone.

Mental disability- i would say yes, people with ASD can suffer OCD, depression and anxiety along with sensory problems.

Dh suffers with depression and OCD and i suffer from anxiety and we have 2 dd's on the spectrum.

Autism is one of those conditions which falls between the 2 as far as service delivery is concerned.

For DLA purposes it's treated as claim on mental health grounds and those are the sections of the adult DLA claim that need to be completed.

According to NAS it's a nuerobiological condition with a physical cause.

It's not an illness or a disease - it's a lifelong benign condition.

However as it manifests itself incognitive / communication / social deficits then it becomes a 'hidden disability'.

Service providers have historicaly been those who also dealt with learning difficulties such as Social / Communication Disorder Units. Then under NHS reorganisation at the start of the last decade repsonsibility for diagnosis etc was in most areas, transferred to CAMHS, leaving most SCDUs to deal with those with below normal IQs.

CAMHS already had the clinical psychs and psychiatrists necessary to dx and treat mental health issues and were therefore seen as best placed to dx ASD and to provide any therapy that may be required. (Hmmm)

CAMHS's traditional area of expertise was psychoses and nueroses, so they didn't initally have a great deal of expertise with autism. They expected their clients to 'get better' when ASD is a life-long condition.

CAMHS generally discharge at 16. To be handed over to adult mental health services post 16 you would need to have a comorbid condition such as anxiety or OCD. Otherwise it's so long and thanks for all the fish!

What is needed is an ASD-specific service as it doesn't fit with either physical or mental health services.

NAS did a survey of all LAs a year or so ago asking them what ASD services they have. My lying bastards LA said they had a specilaist worker. When I rang up to be put in contact with them - surprise - they didn't exist.

I sincerely hope that with the number of children that are being dx's at younger ages these days, the authorities wake up and start providing ASD-specific services that the services they will need in adolesence and beyond.

Wow, Wetaugust. You really know your stuff!

It's sad to think that once our children hit 16 they're out on their own. It would seem to make sense that a lifelong condition requires lifelong support.

Perhaps future ASD-specific provision is something we should all email our MPs and prospective MPs about just now.

At what age do you expect them to 'start' with CAMHS then? My ds is 3, was dx by a paed and SLT and that's it, no follow-ups.

Is that it?

(not that I want anything more if I'm honest. The services hard fought for already have been either worse than useless or damaging - but might it get us repite?)