Have finally sent off Tribunal appeal form (and documents) and preparing formal Stage 1 complaint

[daisy5678]

So so bored of this now. This is the fifth year of arguing with those penny-pinching liar. J has had a pretty-much-perfect Statement for the last 18 months, after 4 years of amendments (it's been amended 19 times). However, the LA have decided to amend his Statement again and remove some of the funding which makes mainstream work for him (not an easy - or cheap- task) which means that the school will struggle to meet his needs, as they did prior to the extra funding. The LA have decided to do this on the basis of J having improved, seemingly unable to make the connection between that fact and the extra provision! They have not based these changes on any recommendations by anyone except themselves! So I hope that they're doomed largely on that fact.

So, Tribunal form and 320 pages of photocopied relevant evidence are now sent and I am out for blood now. This is the third Tribunal that I've had to threaten in 5 years and I think they will actually go through with it this time as my area is really really skint. Looking back through my many many boxes of evidence reminded me of all the lies they've told over those years and all the times they've not followed the law in terms of decision-making and procedures, and I'm sick of it!

I have requested some extra stuff under the Freedom of Information Act/ Data Protection and it will help confirm what I have already been unofficially told by sympathetic insiders and I have started writing my (very, very long) formal Stage 1 complaint, which I intend to take as far as the LGOmbudsman.

cos I'm in fighty mode but that I'm having to do all this extra shit again

liars ...why do I never preview?

Can only offer sisterhood support and wish you luck. Sorry this is happening to you. Wishing you efficiency so you and your family are not robbed of any more of your time than is strictly necessary.

Thanks, AW. What's the time delay on Tribunals now? Appeal forms sent in April = Tribunal in November, maybe?

You 'might' get October, but I know they are prioritising Secondary Transfer atm which means some of the less time-critical things are getting put back. I think they have addressed the general high demand so it won't be much more than 5 months (taking out August)

hth

It seems part of being a SEN mum tbh. I think I am resigned to this process and the unfairness within it and am actually EXPECTING to do as you have done. You sound pretty resigned too if you have threatened 5 tribunals. They're hardly things you can threaten without the intention to go through with.

bloody hell, sorry you are having to continue to battle to get your DS any sort of adequate education. hope they cave soon.

I agree. You must have incredible stamina.

What I find so depressing is that you have a little inside knowledge and yet you are still dealt this shit and having to figure out how to navigate what your child is ENTITLED to. Doesn't that just highlight what a failure the current system is?

Oh, the system is a shambles. To be fair, the last 18 months have ben OK, with the exception of adequate specification of SALT in the Statement, but he's been getting enough anyway for me to be able to live with it.

This is a more complex potential Tribunal than the others that I've had to prepare for. The others were about the LAs refusal to 1) carry out Statutory Assessment before J started school, despite nursery's vehement stance that 100% 1:1 was necessary due to violence/ running off etc. or 2) the LAs refusal to give more than 50% 1:1, despite (by then) the school's insistence that it was necessary and having to pay for it themselves for years. I would have gone through with either very happily because I was 100% positive that I would win because the issue was very very clearcut.

This is trickier because J does get an exceptional amount of funding for a mainstream child - SALT, OT, ASD outreach, 100% 1:1 plus 4 extra hours for the school to use for preparation of resources and sessions that require 2:1 (trips, for example). The LA position is that he has made good progress (true) and so needs fewer resources (untrue). The evidence in my favour, including the school's, is very strong and the LA have no evidence from anyone except their 'feeling' that he has made progress and therefore needs fewer resources. They also claim that he needs fewer hours so that he becomes more independent - they've been trying that one on me for years! I would love him to be so but wishing doesn't make it happen - he is just unsafe if unsupervised! I am a little worried that the Tribunal won't see my position (that he only copes in mainstream because of the level of funding received) and will agree that he needs to have more time on his own to 'learn independence'. The school will point out the impossibility of this and so will I, but I do worry still.

The thing is, anywhere else, J would probably be in a special school, but there is nothing here for children like him. So they have to bloody well accept that inclusion, in this case, will cost money or it can't happen at all. Grr.

Thanks guys. October would be good but tbh I hope that they cave too because I could really do without this. I am pretty good on paper but would not manage to sit politely through a Tribunal without getting myself even more on the LAs hatelist by interrupting their lies every time they spoke!

Grrrrr. I am battling the 1:1 vs independence too. I keep telling them that he NEEDS 1:1 IN ORDER to be independent. There has to be someone there with their eyes on him 100%, not as his playmate, but as his facilitator and ready to intervene in any opportunity that presents for him to practise socialisation, independence and self-care skills.

It isn't MY fault that their TA's are so badly trained that they foster dependency. That is NOT a reason to remove them, but to TRAIN them.

Surely you have in your favour that the current system of provision is working? Kind of like ABA programmes have to demonstrate 8 months or so of evidence of progress in order to prove to the tribunal it is the appropriate provision? I am certainly not expecting the tribunal to say 'yes we can see he has made so much progress on his programme that he no longer needs that level of support', at least I hope not.

That's my hope, yes, that they can see that everything pre-extra-funding/ resources was them 'containing' J, not moving him on. The enhanced provision means that he is progressing but without it, there is no way that he could cope in mainstream, not now he's nearing secondary.

Totally agree about the independence thing. The school described it once as 'hover' support - she can swoop in if needed but will obviously stand back when not. She's actually excellent with him - the best one (of ten, so far) yet in many ways, and he's got her again next year, apparently. She doesn't 'stifle' his independence at all - it's just a way of the LA trying to claim to be altruistic and caring when really it's about saving money.

I'm thinking of playing on the money angle anyway. Mainstream + resources cost probably 18k on top of normal funding. There are no remotely suitable state special schools round here and a private one is 15k just for the fees - and he'd also need 1:1 so they're looking at double what mainstream costs. That private one probably wouldn't take him anyway as they're not keen on severe SEN so the closest possible alternative special school that would be appropriate is an hour away and he'd need a taxi and escort there and back. I somehow think that mainstream is cheaper and have put that in my Tribunal submission.

When's yours, AW?

as i read I was wondering whether costing out private schools/special schools might help, but I see you are already on top of that aspect!

It's the LA's fault that I latched onto that, actually, cos one of the SEN people started to go on about how much more he was costing than any other mainstream child and how the sodding Panel might decide that it would be cheaper to put him in special school .

I turned to her with a big grin and said 'which one would you be suggesting then, given that it's well-known that there are none available for high-functioning, academically OK autistic children with challenging behaviour?'. She soon shut up .

Tribunal date late September...almost wish it was now because I want it done!

GMS wow go go go...by the way what is a LGOmbudsman? Also you said stage 1 complaint..tell me more how do I complain cause I got a lot to complain about!

What should/could I ask for with Freedom of Information Act....didnt realise they actually write anything about our kids as they dont like to give anything.

I am hoping I will be following you in December with my 3rd tribunal...I will watch you for tips on the way

I know giveme. Supposed to be stressful but tbh it is on a par with 'looking forwardness' to a carabbean holiday. Absolutely can't wait for mine.

LA have asked for 'another' 6 weeks to review the appeal . Bit bored waiting so putting in my stage 1 against 3 depts, to coordinate the stage 2 and possibly LGO against whole sorry organisation.

want2 Did you win your previous ones?

Put in a subject access request to all departs and organisations at the same time asking for everything they have on you and your childre. They WILL weed despite not being allowed to, but they won't coordinate their weeding across depts so you might get something there.

hth

Stage 1 complaint is just a normal complaint. They can't possibly 'solve' that complaint, so it will then move to a more independent stage 2 complaint. Who won't really be able to 'solve' it either, as the lies and incompetence are so pervasive. That means I will then be able to appeal to the Local Government Ombudsman - see www.lgo.org.uk - which means that I will get a properly independent review which will hopefully end up in a public bollocking and recommendations of what they need to do in terms of overhauling their whole SEN system here. Maybe in an ideal world, anyway.

Someone's also suggested initiating a judicial review but that's a bit out of my comfort zone. Happy with Tribunal and complaint procedures, but don't know enough about judicial reviews.

Re: Freedom of Information Act - you're supposed to be able to ask for copies of anything about your child, with a few exceptions. I've asked for some stuff which is specific to him and his case but also some more general facts, statistics and documents relating to SEN here in general.

Saw a really interesting set of minutes today which mentioned J's case and then had minutes of the resulting discussion about cost implications...all from a team who insist that cost is never a factor and is never discussed

Grrr. It's only the hope of retribution that keeps me going, tbh. Wrong but fact.

Angrywasp, how dare they ask for extra time ? I'm shocked at how little time they have to give me to respond to their case and how long they get to prepare it, so I'd be very pissed off if it was postponed too! How've they justified it?

They took their 6 weeks and on the final day told the tribunal that they photocopied only every other page and so want another 6 weeks.

TBH though it doesn't make me angry at all. I can still prepare my case statement and just tweak it when they send in their very predictable response. I have pretty much everything they can possibly say, and enough evidence through the FoI to catch their lies. I have 'allowed' them the extra time as it makes me look reasonable and them heavy-handed and stupid.

GMS I've done the judicial review (well threatened and they backed down) but never heard of stage 1,2,3 complaints I am guessing that is internal complaints procedure?

How much does it shake them up making these complaints? What I mean is do they take a blind bit of notice?

AngryW yes I won and will have to go back to tribunal as they never back down..I guess they are trying to beat me as it is all a game to them

It depends on lots of things as to how much notice they take. The complaints system is quite satisfying though because you make the first complaint and the 2nd stage complaint includes all of your first complaint plus a complaint about all the lies that materialised from the first complaint etc etc etc. until you reach the LGO with a bigger complaint than you even had in the first place and then they really do have to take notice.

What you get:

very little financial compensation if at all, but the statisfaction of the LA being told off, an opportunity to demand a lot more and better provision with more senior and qualified members of staff, a 'reputation' which means people take you seriously in the future and paves an easier road.

Judicial review is also out of my comfort zone at the moment

want2. What part of the country are you in?

This is my very first tribunal (I'm a tribunal virgin ) notice I say FIRST

I'm sorry it is yet another tribunal for you, you serial tribunalist!

AngryW hopefully they will back down before tribunal and give your dc what they needs.

I cant name area as praying act comes in as I reckon they wont change a word.

Hope you dont live in same area as they are two faced liars that use every trick in the book to all parents...which I dont buy their threats!

yep. I reckon you and I is neighbours then. Our private EP says they are responsible for generating 70% of his work and he doesn't even live here!

Some of you guys should do this as a job, really, I am super-impressed by all the expertise. It took me a whole afternoon just to understand what 'maintained' school means