6 year old behaviour, at wits end please help

[GlastonburyGoddess]

Sorry forgot to add a title again

Posting this again as I thought I may get more replys/advice on this board.

My 6 yr old ds1 has behaviour problems(not yet known wether underlying problem exsists-under paed) and has good weeks and bad weeks, its like a rollercoaster-he'll have a reasonably good few days, then he'll have a run of horrendous days where you cant do anything with him.
He doesnt respond to sticker charts or anything along that line and time out seems to have limited effect.

He was at home with me yesterday as dp at work and ds2 nursery. he was fairly good all day, until I realised he had scratched the LCD screen on the tv-not a bit, but all over big deep scratches. Im pulling me hair out about him, He must have thought about doing it, sneaked in the kitchen and got a knife or similar and then did it-its not like there was something by the tv that he just picked up and used, it was premeditated.

I could sort of understand it if we had had a arguement/disagreement, but as I say there was no reason for him to act like this.

He wont talk to us about why he did it and shows no remorse either.

what would be a suitable punishment for this in your opinion?

Other things that concern me about ds-

DS1 finds it difficult to queue or line up. Although he has just recently started to after nrly 2 yrs at school, a big improvement but often still have problems, will either go in reception or ends up being dragged into class by myself/teachers.

DS1 doesn?t appear to understand social boundaries/interaction. He doesn?t understand how to approach other children individually and in groups and will run up into other peoples faces or barge.

DS1 likes to be undressed and getting dressed is a big issue in our house

DS1 likes touching and will touch anything, he will pick up anything and everything when we are out

DS1 has to have a pillowcase with ?zigzags? if you put one on that doesn?t, he goes into meltdown

DS1 is provocative with other children at school and at home with sibling

DS1 doesn?t cope well with teasing and will erupt into meltdown and hysteria when pushed/teased

DS1 does inappropriate things-touching unknown substance on pavement then putting fingers in mouth

DS1 loves spinning the faster/higher the better

DS1 seems more unaware than children of his age of danger-escalator incident, repeatedly jumping over 12ft wall

DS1 is an escapee and will bolt if doors are unlocked or if the garden gate has been accidentally unscrewed

DS1 cant talk quietly, he shouts everything from the moment he wakes til he goes to bed

Ds1 needs constant reminders about personal hygiene, will not flush toilet or wash hands unless prompted

DS1 loves water and will seek out any opportunity to play in it from streams, the sea, the bath, puddles, birdbaths etc

DS1 cant sit still and will tap, bang an object, shake his leg etc when sitting

Still appears to be ambidextrous

Goes to the toilet whenever we go into a shop/supermarket. If he has just been and we say no, you don?t need to go, he has a meltdown.

From approx 2yr old had odd interest in cars/recognising cars that family/friends had, even if different colour but same make, these were not obvious cars like mini/landrover and he couldn?t read at the time. This seems to have disappeared now.

On bad days DS1 is overly emotionally sensitive-will cry at almost anything eg being told no.

Will steal food, had a loft bed which had to be replaced as was stealing food and hiding it in his bed. Will steal food off brothers plate if were not watching closely enough. Will not stop eating, which consequently leads to meltdowns when told no/no more.

Is frequently destructive/will vandalise often for no obvious reason.

Will empty anything left in the bathroom-dispensible soap, shampoos, makeup, toothpaste etc

Will lie about anything and everything.

Used to take stuff from school, mostly girls stuff, hairclips, necklaces plastic earrings. This seems to have now stopped.

Doesn?t cope well with large busy enclosed spaces-cant take to big tesco where we live, ends up having to be escorted back to the car due to tantrums/behaviour.

Has no stranger danger concept, would go to anybody as a baby, will talk to anyone and everyone now.

Probably more than that, but those are the things that come to mind at the moment.

Anybody else have a child this age like this-how do you cope?

Anyone with any advice/comments?
Sorry its so long

Lots of Autistic traits there IMO have you looked on the NAS website?Routine , structure, clear boundaries and rewards work well with ASD do you have them in place at home? Could you make the structure of his day more rigid perhaps?

I would say see to all your qs above, I was thinking of getting/making one of those picture now/later boards, has anyone else had success using one of those?

Also Im going to try cutting out certain food stuffs-pheylalnine(sp?), aspartme etc
there was a book talked about on here a while ago about gf, cf,msg free etc diet, anyone know what it was called?
Have tried food diary but nothing shows up as being obvious for behaviour patterns, just clutching at straws here...

I would *say yes

As ASDX2 said, there are a lot of Autistic traits on your list, i would be treating this as ASD if it was my child (i'm not diagnosing your DS but it does no harm to put in to place stratagies that are used for ASD children). Routine is important and structure, you could put together a schedual using pictures to help him understand what is going to happen through out the day (so he has time to take in whats happening next), you can also use this to help remind him to wash his hands and flush the toilet (we use picture scheduals all over the house).

Also as Glastonbury said, look at his diet (this can have a huge effect on behaviour), both my dd's are a night-mare if they have to much sugar or e-numbers (also gluten).

Reward good behaviour and ignore the bad (which i know is hard, i would of been very angry if my child scratched my TV).

Dd2 has no sense of danger and will run in front of cars, at the moment she uses a pushchair (maclaren major) on trips out or we use a wrist strap.

I don't take the dd's to supermarkets unless its quite, i tend to shop online or when they are at school.

Both of my dd's cry a lot, when told no or if they cant have something (dd1 less than she used to).

Thanks for your opinions so far guys. he has been under the paed for over 2 yrs, weve got nowhere with them, theyve taken his history, what he was like as a baby etc and that it really it. They claimed that they wouldnt do anything until he was six, but at last appointment discharged him??! and said come back if things get worse-this was all based on schools report of him and a report from an ed psych whod never met him but spent 25 mins in the classroom observing him.

I went back to the dr last week after he had a particulary bad week-thursday before easter hols he had two different sets of teachers am/pm and was horrendous apparently, told one to f-off and spent most of the day out of the classroom after getting into trouble. came home and was equally awful, put him to bed at 5pm in the end.

Have requested to see a specific pead whome his 2nd cousin(aspergers+complex needs) sees, so am now awaiting letter from hospital.
Have told school if theyre more planned teacher absences I will be considering taking him out of school for those days-he just cannot cope with it.

Could you get him assessed at a different hospital (in a different ares?), i'm not sure if you can do this but it may be worth a try.

Do you live in the SW? (just going by your name), i am in the SW (Dorset) and managed to get dx's within 1.5 years for dd1 and 11 months for dd2, the peads we saw were great and very helpful.

Does he cope well with school (other than the change of teachers)? A lot of children on the spectrum are better behaved at school as they thrive on the set routine, both my dd's are better at school unless there is a change in the routine and then they get very upset. You need to make sure the school gives you plenty of notice if there are going to be any changes so you can prepare your ds.

Op - as above sounds very ASD - also some ADHD mixed in maybe. A private diagnosis can cost a bit but can sometimes prompt schools into action and give you access to other services and maybe DLA. The incrediable years book by webster - stratton is a good starting place for behaviour stratergies - whataever the cause

agree with trouble - sounds like a lot of sensory issues there - kids can be undersensitive over some issues, and oversensitive with other issues - so constant moving/mouthing because craving sensation of that sort whilst oversensitive to bright lights/busy shops. I wonder if your DS asks to go to toilet in supermarkets as the toilets are appealing - either as more enclosed and less scary than the shop or beccause he wants to play with water in the sink. whilst waiting to get appropriate professional referrals, check out the library/amazon for relevant books - say on sensory issues and/or Aspergers. techniques that work for kids with ASD will do no harm to a kid who isn't on the spectrum.

try - out of sync child by Carol Kranowitz re:sensory issues.

in terms of behaviour - try and read up on sensory issues, and see if what you read rings a bell and gives you tips from nipping trouble in the bud. as a rule, I prefer consequences to punishment per se - as in, if you kick off over the wii, you need to go to your room to calm down, rather than - you wouldn't pick up your toys, ten minutes time out now!

Marne- yes in the sw, hadnt thought about trying to get asessments at a different hospital, will definately look into it if I get no joy this time. can I ask what hospital you had success with as your not that far from us?

He copes reasonably well at school-once we manage to get him into the class he usually settles down, his behaviour is definately worse at home which gives the teachers/senco etc ammunition to point the finger at us as parents, whereas I beleive alot of asd children seem to be able to "hold themselves together" at school and release it when they get home??

I personally feel that school downplay his issues and raise eyebrows when they hear about how he is at home which just does not help as it makes us feel pants and makes us look like were lying and they seem to appear sooo superier because they can manage him better than we can etc

I would love to pursue private dx, but my understanding of it means it could cost £3k upwards, unfortunately I just dont have that type of money at the moment.

trouble-school have said they cant refer to camhs and last time i spoke to them they wouldnt see ds as he was under the pead. Im going to try and get an appointment with this specific pead first then go from there.

Glastonbury- we are in west dorset, both dd's were assessed in Dorset county hospital (childrens center) which is in Dorchester, dd1's dx took a bit longer than dd2's as she didn't show all the signs and managed to hide some of her traits but we still got a clear dx of Aspergers by the time she was 4.5 years old, dd2 was diagnosed when she was 3.4 with ASD and we are going back next week to see if they can pin point where she is on the spectrum (we suspect she is high functioning). The dd's both had different peads but both were great and explained things really well to us.

We also had the same problem with dd1's school, for the first year she was there they could not see anything wrong other than her being a bit sensitive, this year she has the SENCO as her teacher and she say's that dd's Aspergers is becoming more obvious. We have just had to fight with the school to ger a referral for dd1 as we suspect she has low muscle tone and possible dyspraxia (its taken me a year and a half to get them to notice her problems).

I forgot to say too that ds has another child in his year at school who has LFA so I think that they compare any other children to that particular child and come up with=no asd, which is quite stupid as the spectrum is so varied and you cant really compare LFA and HFA.

I wonder if he was interested in tracing the picture on the screen? Some children really really love to use washable pens to colour over a still image on a tv screen. Or tape a piece of paper over the screen and trace the image onto the paper then colour in.

All together, in your shoes, I would be working towards being as playful as possible with your child (Floortime therapy?), picking your battles - if he has certain scripts he likes to follow about using the toilet at supermarkets or what kind of pillowcase he uses, then go with it if it's not going to hurt anyone. A Floortime therapist would be able to help you meet his sensory seeking needs safely too

(I'm not a marketing consultant for the Floor time people, btw, it's just I've seen them really really help a few children whose lives initially looked rather like your son's )

My DS (Aged 2 1/2) has just been diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder. Reading about your son is like describing my son. I have received a Report (Private) confirming diagnosis -am now waiting to recive his sensory diet within the next couple of days.

I would suggest that you insist on being referred to an Occupational Therapist who specialises in SPD.

Sally

My daughter was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder 3 yrs ago and it sounds very similar.

This is Ds1, minus the lying, and i coped by pushing for a formal assessment of his difficulties which led to a diagnosis of ADHD, and Autism, and I am awaiting a sensory processing assessment with an occupational therapist.

ds2 (5y) has sensory processing disorder too but it does also seem as if some of the points you make could be due to being on the autistic spectrum - hard to separate them both out. In fact I'm a little dubious about the 'sensory processing disorder' label at the moment for various reasons which I may discuss on here sometime, but once I found out about it, it certainly fitted my son's behaviour. The website I first looked at was this one which has a good checklist to go through and some explanations as to why our children behave in the way they do.

I have found the Out of Sync books very helpful, and the OT too although it can be difficult to fit in all the different things she recommends (brushing, therapeutic listening, various exercises, sensory activities...)

I am also having difficulty keeping cool at the moment but I try to choose my battles. At the moment the most important thing for me is toilet training and everything else can wait. This doesn't mean I let him 'get away' with bad behaviour like scratching the tv but I have only so much energy and so I'm focussing on getting him to use the toilet regularly and feel proud of himself when his pants are clean and dry. I set an alarm to remind me to remind him - it's currently on about every 30 minutes and I hope I can start to extend that in the next few days. We also have an A4 piece of paper on the wall of our downstairs toilet with pictures showing what he should do after using the toilet: wipe your bottom, wash your hands, flush the toilet. This can be shortened to wipe, wash, flush which is easy to remember. I tell him he needs to kill the germs, which is something he cares about, but he does still take a lot of reminding.

He has therapeutic listening CDs which he does twice a day but they are very expensive and although the people who market them say they are wonderful I don't think they are backed up with properly designed research. But they are supposed to help with loads of the sensory problems - listening, concentration, modulating speaking volume, balance, motor skills and so on.

I've stopped the body brushing but I think it really helped because he doesn't scream about having his face wiped, hair washed or teeth brushed any more. Bedtimes used to be loads of fun [not] and I am glad i have a sympathetic neighbour who doesn't report me to SS!

I try to let him do lots of water play, playdough, painting, helping with the cooking, bouncing on the trampoline to provide him with sensory stimulation - I don't plan these but it helps that I have a toddler as well so he can just join in with the kind of messy or active play you would do with a toddler. I can tell when he's missing out because those are the days when he's bouncing off the walls, annoying me and his big brother and chewing everything around him. I also have one of those bumpy sticks for him to chew and it's great as long as we don't forget where it is.

Getting dressed used to be a huge struggle and can still be sometimes - with ds2 it's less that he likes being undressed and more that he can't see the point of changing his clothes, and even if he intends to get dressed seems to get distracted in the process so will have his pants on and nothing else because he's found some toys to fiddle around with. Most days I have to stand over him pointing out what comes next and trying to keep his focus on the task of getting dressed instead of anything else.

Interestingly ds2 is also a child who will talk to anyone and everyone. He usually makes friends with people on the bus, or tells random people in the street exactly where we are going and what we are planning to do there. And only today he was commenting that everyone in school knew who he was. He couldn't explain why that might be!

oh (just to add to my extremely long message there ) ds2 had an assessment with a paed which was rather unhelpful and the report was littered with adjectives such as 'delightful' and 'mild'. I'm sure she missed a lot - I don't think he's on the autistic spectrum but he does have lots of sensory issues and other behaviours which, to me, would seem to point to ADHD. Luckily school agrees with me and are starting the statementing process, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed the assessment won't be with the same paediatrician as he had last time.

MamanPorcine - ds1 is also 'delightful' to people, he's very excitable and gleeful compared to other cynical 7 year olds.

Like a Labrador.