Advice needed on statements please

[tellmewhy]

I have posted this in chat and SN education and was advised to post over here.
DS2 is in reception class and is 5 the end of july,so he is one of the youngest in class.Not that that should make any differance but just thought i would tell you.
Anyway afew weeks back teacher called me into school to tell me she had now put class into groups.DS is in bottom group and is at the bottom of this group.He has speech and communition delay so to be fair this didn't come as a surprise.
I went to parents evening last night and i brought up statments.I asked the teacher if i she thought i should start sorting this now for DS,because i have been told it can take a long time to sort out.To my surprise she said no,she said they wouldn't do anything till at least year 1.
Is this right or is the teacher trying to put me off?Would it some how reflect on the school if DS was given a statement?
DS has already had to wait till after the easter holiday for his SALT to start at school,because funding wasn't in place.

Okay. What help do you think your ds needs that he isn't getting? (I know this is a hard question, but it is one that you'll need to have answers to in order to fight your corner)

It is a hard one to put down in black and white.
He needs help with his speech,which fingers crossed should start after the easter holiday.But i must add teacher wasn't sure and when i rang the SALT office on monday they did say they would try and found out and let me know.I'm still waiting.
He is under the hospital with his ears,he is due to go back the end of april.He has glue ear which of course effects his speech.The consultant was talking about hearing aids the last time we saw him.
The teacher did say that he works better if they take him out of the class to a quiet area.I think this is because there is no back ground noise.
To give you some idea what level he is at,the only other child at this level is a child with english as a second language.
He has an IEP in place.But i really can't see any improvement.He can learn a sound one week and know it well then forget it the next week.The same with numbers afew weeks ago he knew 1-10 but now struggles with 1-3 in the right order.

Hi tellmewhy,

Hmmm, she said they would not do anything till at least year 1 - that's awful. Early intervention is vital in such matters and potentially not doing anything for another year is simply waiting for him to fall further.

I would indeed start writing to your LEA asap requesting such a Statutory Assessment. You do not need school's permission to apply for a Statement and you'd be better off applying for it personally. This is because you can appeal the LEA's crass decision in the event they say no (school cannot) and also if you apply you know its been done then. Some schools can unduly delay such applications.

It can take six months for such a document to be set up.

SALT as well can and should be put into a Statement (it should be in part 2 as well as part 3 of this document).

A statement, unlike anything else that gets offered, is legally binding.

Am not therefore all that surprised that SALT funding was not in place before the Easter break; short of a statement being in place this is the sort of crapola you will continuously be up against.

IPSEA is very good at the whole statementing minefield and I suggest you look at their website:-

www.ipsea.org.uk. There are model letters on there you can use.

tellmewhy I agree with Attilla, however you need to get over your difficulty puting things down in black and white. Ambiguity is always used against you.

You need to say what his needs are, what has to be put in place to meet those, and provide evidence.

Sounds daunting but with a few pointers here you'll do it.

1. Keep a log of every single professional that you speak to from now on, with their name, date, contact details and summary of conversation as well as choice quotes

2. Confirm every promise in writing, using 'clarity' as your rationale. i.e. just writing to make sure I understood correctly, from Easter ds will be receiving 2 hours weekly of 1:1 SALT. Is this right?'

Get 'opinions' and 'assessments' if you can from these professionals and again, follow them up in writing.

Don't be afraid to challenge, and don't assume that just because he is 'getting something' that it is helping. It might do, but it may very well not.

hth

Ring the SALT office and get a name. Write to them asking what is in place for your ds next term.

Hi tellmewhy

i have just recently started the process of getting my ds statemented, and have recieved excellent advice from people here, you are definatly in the right place.

i don't understand why the school are telling you that you can't apply for a statement untill year 1. my ds is'nt at school yet and we are going for one with the nurserys help.

Hi, I'm a SENCO in a primary school so hope that I can help a litle. Obvioulsy without knowing your child and how delayed his speech is, it is difficult o say whether your teacher is saying the right thing. It is VERY hard to get a statement approved. Once they are in school we need at least 6 months of reports/ evidence before we submit an application. And the child needs to be working at a level at least 2 years behind their peers. Now this becomes easier for us to prove as teh child gets older.
IME it is easier to get a Statemnet through Nursery / preschool than it is to get a statement in KS1. If regular SALT isn't in place then there is no way that a statemnet would be approved. (And I don't understand why SALT would be delayed because of funding). But if he has seech and communication difficulties then why has he not been seeing a SALT before now. Most children with severe (ie bad enough for a Statemnet) would have had regular SALT sessions throughout Nursery / preschool. FRom this it sunds to me as if your child's needs would not be considered severe enough to warrant a Statemnet. It is not detrimental to the school for your child to have a Statemnet - quite the opposite in fact. Thye will get extra funding and teh SEN index will increase, which is all good for the school. Also it will mean that they can access extra help for your child more easily - all good news. So they wouldn't delay statementing unless they weren't sure whether they wold definitely get the statement or not.
But definitely chase up the SALT appointments - contact SALT yourself and be willing to take your child to an appointmnet in whichever clinic has a vacnacy to get a quicker appoitmnet. Any statemnet application has to be approved by an Educational Psychologist who needs to submit a report on the cild, so ask the SENCO when an EP appointmnet can be made. Also ask if there are any other services that your child might benefit from. The more reports / eveidence that can be gathered will make getting the statemnet eaiser

It is not correct to assume that a child needs to be two years behind their peers and you don't also need six months worth of evidence from school before applying for a Statement.

This is the sort of argument that some LEAs come out with in order not to statement readily and such a statement can be construed as blanket policy which is illegal in law. Many LEA's have been carpeted by
the Secretary of State for such behaviours.

NappyShed

I've seen you on a few threads now and I must say it is lovely to have someone in the profession who quite clearly cares about children with SEN and who is motivated to support parents on these threads.

Having said that, a lot of these threads are populated by parents that have been very badly let down by the system, and there are quite a few that have become experts in the field as a result.

I'm saying this because I think your contributions are very valuable but you are in danger of being in the firing line if you say something based on your experience rather than the Code of Practice or even law.

'It is VERY hard to get a statement approved'

Absolutely true, but not a reason to not apply for one.

'Once they are in school we need at least 6 months of reports/ evidence before we submit an application'

Not true by law or code of practice.

'And the child needs to be working at a level at least 2 years behind their peers'

It is illegal to state this as it is a blanket policy.

'IME it is easier to get a Statemnet through Nursery / preschool than it is to get a statement in KS1.'

This may be true, but it it likely to be meaningless at these ages due to it all being about child-led play etc.

'If regular SALT isn't in place then there is no way that a statemnet would be approved.'

This would be unlawful.

'But if he has seech and communication difficulties then why has he not been seeing a SALT before now.'

Because most service providers tend to prefer a 'wait and see' approach to save money.

'Most children with severe (ie bad enough for a Statemnet) would have had regular SALT sessions throughout Nursery / preschool.'

Absolutely not true. It should be, but it just doesn't happen like that. In many cases the SLT is worse than useless anyhow.

'FRom this it sunds to me as if your child's needs would not be considered severe enough to warrant a Statemnet.'

It has nothing to do with severity, but whether a school can meet the needs within their own resources.

'It is not detrimental to the school for your child to have a Statemnet - quite the opposite in fact. Thye will get extra funding and teh SEN index will increase, which is all good for the school.'

But they don't get the money when the statement is issued do they, but the following financial year!? (disclaimer - I don't know this for certain)

Also, paperwork-wise, it is quite a nightmare from what many teachers tell me.

'Any statemnet application has to be approved by an Educational Psychologist who needs to submit a report on the cild, so ask the SENCO when an EP appointmnet can be made.'

This is kind of true, but if you apply for a statement, the LA will send out their EP anyway, so it saves you the chasing.

Sorry to nit-pick. Perhaps you work in a good school with decent LA support where things just fall into place. For the majority of us our children are attending schools that are being lied to by the LA, who then pass on those lies to us. I am quite sad about how 'caught in the middle' schools are, when mostly they are staffed by decent people just trying to make a difference.

delsparadise - I think you are being unnecessarily harsh to nappyshed. I have seen posts of your own which are not particularly accurate with regard to procedures so I don't think you can really portray yourself as some sort of expert. Nappy is speaking from her experience as a SENCO in one part of the country, you are speaking from experience as a parent (I presume) in another part of the country, both of you can offer your opinion.

I was not meaning to be harsh londonone, but I wanted to warn her that she might be in danger of getting snipy posts and tbh like it that she's come on here and would like to to stay.

That's all.

ANd I don't portray myself as an expert. I'm continually asking loads of questions.

Maybe I misunderstood you, sorry.

Thanks Londonone for a supportive message.

Del - Thanks for the warning. I am sorry that I have tried to help but as you have just about contradicted or criticised every sentence that I took the time to write, then I shan't be wasting my time again. I do understand that parents often have to really battle for what their child is entitled, but schools do too. I have been a SENCO for 8 years and have applied for a fair few statements in that time, so do have quite a bit of experience in how the system can work. If a school has a supportive, on the ball, SENCO (which I hope I am) then the SENCo will be the one gathering the evidence and helping the parents in going back to the LEA with appeals. It sounds like you probbaly haven't had that same experience, but that not to say that the majoriy of schools / LEAs aren't doing things correctly. In all instances it is in the school's interest to get a Statemnet so why wouldn't the school do everything possible to help it along the way?

Anyway, as you say I have been warned, so I won't bother in the future. If anybody wants any advice then do feel free to CAT me but I am not prepared to be quoted and contradicted like this in public. I was only trying to help.

Hi all. Just wanted to add my perspective, fwiw.

NapyShedSal, please don't go. It is always useful to have the advice and experiences of teachers and SENCOs on the boards. I have had absolutely invaluable support and advice from a teacher on some of my threads

I think what DelsParadiseWife was trying to get across was that the whole process of getting an assessment/statement can feel hugely stacked against the parent at times, and i these situations this forum is often the only source a parent has of:

a) very clear facts, based on the SEN COP and the law
b) energy and encouragementto fight the long fight (which it almost always is)

It doesn't mean there is no place for opinion, especially from an experience SENCO such as yourself. I think it is just helpful to be as explicit as possible when this is what you are offering.

To the OP - in your situation, I would push for a team meeting with the class teacher and SENCO, go through your child's IEP and make a very clear note of what support he is currently receiving. Then you can decide if you think it is adequate. If you think not, you do not have to leave referrals or a request for a statutory assessment to the school. You can request assessment yourself, and you can get a GP referral to any professional you feel would benefit your child. A statutory assessment might be best in your case, as it will mean a mulit-disciplinary team will look at your son's needs.

Are the school sympathetic? Always good if they are on board. Could you express your extreme concern about your son's progress? If you need support to be assertive (or someone to take notes while you talk) you should bring your partner or a relative or friend with you. You have the absolute right to do that.

Good luck.

excuse typos

NappyShed I can SEE that you were trying to help, and I expect there are a lot of posters that are and would be grateful for your advice. I'm not trying to chase you away, I'm honestly not.

The trouble is, the blanket policy rule is one that a lot of professionals use to persuade parents not to apply for a statement, either deliberately or through some brainwashing by the LA. I am inclined to believe it is the latter. I can see you have used it twice (about the 6 months thing, and the 2 years behind thing). It is frustrating to see it from someone who is trying to help.

'In all instances it is in the school's interest to get a Statemnet so why wouldn't the school do everything possible to help it along the way?'

I am very interested in this point and if you're not too cross with me to explain it I'd be very grateful. My ds has the most meaningless statement that has ever been written. It basically says 'school to continue doing what they were doing before'. Now I can see why a school might like this statement, but what about the more challenging ones like, must provide dark box to the side of the classroom for ds to crawl into when he is over-stimulated, school must give a card to get out of lessons if too much, school must place a cushion in the corner at the back for ds to lean against but must also ensure that teacher never more than 3 feet away etc etc etc. Surely many (not yours of course) would prefer not to be dictated to in this way as it can cause logistical problems in the school day and doesn't bring in any additional money.

Anyway, - to get back to our row discussion. The point I was trying to make, and which was put better by Minnie, was that generally, this board is full of very disgruntled parents some who have been fighting for years predominantly against ignorance, and to announce that you are a SENCO and then to mention what is seemingly a LA's reinterpretation of the CofP, used regularly to fob off parents, well it is likely to put people's backs up.

Having said that, if Londonone is right and I am getting procedural things wrong I hope you will point it out. All I want is to have, and for others on this board to have (as I'm certain you do), accurate information and support. I hope you continue to post and support parents on this board. God only knows I they need it!

AtillatheMeercat as I read it in the SEN CoP Annex A p12 (from the SEN Regs 2001) where a request for Statutory Assessment has been made by a responsible body (school, parent,health autorities and social services)
if the LA decide not to make an assessment they must notify the parent of their right to appeal to the Tribunal (4 b v)In other words the parents can still appeal the decision whether they have made the request or not.

That's how I read it too ima, but I think it is harder to appeal as a parent if the school have put in the request, logistically if nothing else.

I don't see why it should be harder to appeal. The parent just gets a copy of all the documentation and lodges SENDIST appeal.

It should actually be easier because unlike a parentally initiated request you would be able to prove that school obviously see the need for an assessment as the originally initiated the request for one

I have had a terrible time with sen and the school, my ds is statemented but it seems to me they are using his ta more like a ca, but she is funded for him , no one listens though. So i feel he has made little progress, which is upsetting that no one seems to care about my ds, who i guess is now another who is lost in the system.

You need to monior just how much TA support your Ds is getting and if it is less than the Statement says he must have then you need to complain - initially to school and after that to the LA.

Sometimes a resource that is provided is used to support more than one child - the school will justify that on 'teaching socialisation skills' grounds. But if his Statement says x hours 1:1 then it's x hours 1:1 he should be getting.

How do i know how much ta he is being given, he wouldnt be able to tell me, thats where i get stuck.