Trivial but upsetting incident at bus stop

[TotalChaos]

I'm somewhat upset over another child from DS's school being nasty to DS. DS said "Hey" in a friendly way. Other child starting mocking him, saying "Hey", "Hey", then "Hey I'm an idiot". . Fortunately DS was oblivious. I just don't know if I'm overreacting - as on the one hand the child is taking the mickey out of DS because of his social immaturity (ie. for SN related reasons, which makes my blood boil as mummy tiger) - whilst on the other hand the other child is only a year older, and I know young boys can be a little lacking in sensitivity. I see this boy about once a week, and now feel awkward about using that bus stop now. I could just walk to the shops instead from there, but....

I just feel a bit today - Ds got a great report from his teacher from parents' evening today - apparently she has no concerns about language/social skills etc- but then if an older kid is taking the piss out of DS's social skills, then they can't be that great . (I didn't mention the incident to DS's teacher as it was a one off) I feel a bit fed up as it's a constant battle to get anyone official to recognise that discharge from SALT is not the same as normal and "cured" and age appropriate ability to communicate.

If some kid called my kid an idiot at a bus stop, whether it's the SEN one or my NF daughter, I would unleash the wrath of hell upon them for using a horrible word. Then I would tell them I would be talking to their mum about their use of insults. But then I have a huge gob!! I can quite understand why you are upset, but tbh teenagers I know tend to now use the word idiot to each other all the time, so I don't think it's necessarily just an SEN insult. I would pick the child up on it though, as it's not acceptable behaviour. I would make them avoid the bus-stop, not you!!!!!

In my DS's school that particular word it banned. Even his much younger sib has told me it's not a nice word.

So who was being imature? Tell the teacher that you would hope these words were wiped out of the oxford dictionary.

"is banned" ....

Oh I know it's not an SEN insult per se, just more that the behaviour that triggered it (perceived social abnormality) was SN related. I didn't intervene, as the boy's mother was there and told him to "Pack it in". Otherwise I would have said something. Oh I didn't make it clear in the OP that my DS is 6, and the other boy is 6.5 or 7.

Thanks for the replies, ladies.

Hi TC

Does the boy know your son very well? Just wondering if he knows about your son's communication difficulties or not.

I am sorry that you are upset and I do agree with sickof that children can sometimes call others names for no apparent reason.

Does DS consider him a friend?

Hi Poshpaws - DS does consider him a friend, and I think the boy does have an inkling of DS's communication problems a few weeks back he asked me rather than Ds how old DS is, but obviously not a mature awareness of language delay!

It was the context that upset me most - as DS was trying to be friendly, and just got insulted iyswim. Whereas if DS had, I dunno, dropped something, or fallen over, and the other lad had called him an idiot I would have been far less bothered

I would feel exactly the same as you if that had happened to DS2 .

Hopefully, it was just a case of this boy being in a snappy mood and not a direct comment about your DS IYSWIM. NT children can be odd sometimes .

hi total.

It's the fact that your DS was within earshot but was oblivious that shows the vulnerability isn't it? Had he fired back with an "I'm not an idiot" or even turned to you with a "mummy! he said I was an idiot!", that would have been very different.

re school, what is your suspicion, what is it that stops you getting the champagne out? Do you suspect at all that part of the teacher's ultra-positive message is to do with wanting to make you relaxed and happy about your DS? Do you wonder if they are ascribing DS's issues to personality/character when they are in fact to do with communication difficulties? I love my nursery teacher but I've had both those two suspicions.

I had my first taste of such incidents just yesterday by the way. DS2 and neighbour's daughter were coming home in the car. Neighbour's daughter said: "ds2, do you remember we were on the trampoline and you said "I'm a grown up" and me and Oliver and Alex, we all said "stupid face"". And I knew that DS2 would not have and could not have fired back a "that's not nice!" or anything similar - he wouldn't even have realised what they were saying.

"a few weeks back he asked me rather than Ds how old DS is"

yes I get this too.

still thinking about your teacher.

She has no concerns about his social skills.

I remember DS1's headteacher wrote a very perceptive report about him at 5.6. It said, "At first, DS1 seemed very concerned by any bad behaviour from other children.However, he has learnt to cope with this and has found his place in the pecking order".

So what I'm thinking is that it requires one level of social skills to access the curriculum, but another level to "find your place in the pecking order" which is what our kids need to do to thrive socially. They don't have to be at the top of the pecking order by any means, but they need a place in it that's comfortable - one where they can answer back if someone calls them stupid-face or an idiot.

I think the reason DS was oblivious was he was distracted as there were a few other nicer children around for him to bounce around with! one to one I think he probably would have said something like "I'm not an idiot, I'm DS" .

Lingle - think you are spot on with the vulnerability point, that's what upset me most, that DS couldn't suss that this child wasn't a friend.

In terms of not getting the champagne out - I think it's a combination of a relatively low level of expectations (school is in deprived area), and teach not realising quite how adept DS is at blagging - i.e. compensating for the deficit in language. At times I get a bit irritated, as I suppose I feel the efforts DS makes to behave etc are underappreciated, given at times it would be like us being in a French classroom (i.e. a language you might be nearly fluent in, but not mother tongue language).

just to add - the "policeman" issue applies to DS - he'll try and tell of other kids who go on the playground equipment after school

and sorry to hear about the stupid face incident.

i've had this with ds1, with a particular boy a year older than him. now I tackle it direct with "Don't be so rude. If I ever hear you say things like that again, I shall tell mr Headteacher"

"I'm not an idiot, I'm DS". Yes, I understand the problem with that.

DS1 (now 7) was a bit further ahead (as you know from past discussions). Headteacher said she was struck by the frown that would spread across his forehead when he saw other children breaking the rules - it threw him. But he knew enough not to intervene. I guess that is the next stage for your DS - knowing to comment to child A that child B is breaking the rules, rather than actually accost child B.

Do you find that Unwritten Rules book helpful or is he not ready for that yet?

How is the academic stuff going? You were concerned about that as I recall.

It's very tricky re the teachers not understanding. DS2 is obviously way behind your DS - but I have realised there is a risk of his problems becoming "invisible" (as opposed to genuinely outgrown like DS1) in the future. At present, they are still manifest: the regular nursery teacher is off sick and the replacement has told me she notcies that he struggles to answer her questions and she has to adjust them to make them more concrete. Even I am guilty of it: we had an incident where he was told a neighbour would pick him up from nursery but he got upset anyway (there had been a fire alarm that day which tends to throw him and no-one warned him shortly before pick-up). I realised that I had failed to do what I tell everyone else to do - draw a picture to put in his bookbag showing the sequence of events (me waiting at home, etc). So even I tend to forget that the underlying issues are still there.

thanks for the reply colditz. that's a good measured answer you have.

lingle - I haven't tried the Unwritten Rules, but shall do, I think Ds could respond v. well to - this is what the book says- rather than - this is what mummy says!

academically - he's doing pretty well, I can see for myself his reading and writing has come on a lot in the last few months. which I think make it easier for his needs to be invisible at this stage...

btw from what you describe, your DS sounds a touch more advanced languagewise - and certainly a lot more advanced with his concepts of time - than DS was at the equivalent age, and of course your DS has the "leg-up" of starting school at 5.

be careful mentioning concepts of time to me - I might start yet another long thread about clocks!!!!!

I think you will really like Unwritten Rules (you will wish someone had written it when we were kids).

well, dd has 3 boys at the bus stop who seem to have decided that she isn't allowed at the front of the line. no idea why - just we're the 'newbies' at that stop. however, she hasn't noticed yet - too busy playing to listen to them. it makes my blood boil & the other parents are generally chatting so much that they haven't noticed either.

i've decided that when/if it becomes an issue for her, i'll intervene. i'm afraid kids are just like that. i'm sure some days dd can be unkind to other kids, they just don't get how upsetting it is

thanks ladies. sorry to hear about the kid at athletics, trouble. It's a balance - as kids aren't saints, including our own, my DS is quite capable of being tactless, but equally some kids do like to put down others they perceive as different or vulnerable. I will be keeping a very firm eye from now on.

it's frustrating, as those familiar with kids with language impairment, usually as parents to kids with SN, definitely would notice S's problems, and confirm I'm not a munchausen's mama. S just seems to be completely off the SN radar .

Feel for u , Total Chaos, bus stops are notorious places for bullying, my ds suffered too and sadly this never stopped so not only we had to move but also he had to leave early or late to avoid passing by when the usual crowd was around (the school never did much about it despite our constant contacts and complaints) and when I witnessed the situation on a few occasions I was horrified as the kids seemed to gang up on him.
Keep your wits about with the school reports, in case they are aimed to pull wool over your eyes to keep you off their backs - that's what happened to us. Only changed when my ds went to a specialist school, then I realised that it was all fake and lazy on their part so they didn't have to do anyting over and above sitting him in front of the pc in a corner with "exercises" that were not even age-appropriate.
In one of the meetings, I blew their write up to smithereens in a presence of deputy head, all based on pure facts, each paragraph was factually incorrect and I was able to prove it. Then we slammed the door on the school..

High Nightcat, sorry your DS had such a rotten time. Academically I'm happy that the school aren't BSing me, as I can see how much his reading/writing/number work have come on. If anything it's SALT dept I am angry at, rather than school - SALT dept discharged him as he was testing within normal range - I so wish they had been honest - i.e. said that they couldn't justify further "treatment" but that he wasn't "cured".

Yes, that also sounds vaguely familiar, our problem was mainly with the SENCO & her team. But I was appalled at the "SALT support" they provided as there was no human interaction - he was sat at the computer on his own, doing exercises for a far younger age. Only realised the difference in terms of provision when he moved to a specialist school.

Nothing annoys me more than people imitating ds1's sounds. So even the imitation of hey would have pissed me off. I think a direct but polite 'please don't do that' can work sometimes.