Behaviour problems vs development problems?

[fernie3]

I posted a messgae on another board and someone suggested I take a look on here so here i am .

I have been told by a number of people including HV that his behaviour is not what you would expect at his age but no one has really suggested what I can do about this and I am actually finding that his behaviour is really affecting my relationship with him and our time together is difficult I even find myself actually arguing with a 3 year old which is quite humiliating to admit. He has been reffered to an "early intervention team" but from what I have been told there is a significant wait for this and at the moment I am not sure there is anything they can do as he is really a pretty normal boy who just seems to find it hard to behave.

He has been a little delayed in his development in the past, for example he has only recently been able to hold a pencil and scribble but really now he is not that much further behind what I would expect in fact he is always surprising me with things he knows.

The main things that really worry me are things like the fact he just cannot even for a moment listen, I know this is normal in toddler etc but my older daughter and others his age will at least look at you with some kind of understanding when you speak to them even id they dont listen. My son will come up to you ask a question and even while you are still talking he will ask the same question over again not just once but until you just move away or tell him to stop and it can literally go on with the same quesiton for upwards of 10 minutes which is quite along time for one question to be repeated! he just doesnt seem to register that you have spoken to him. He also shouts rather than talks, not just a little but every single word that he says is a shout or scream it is embarrassing because people comment on how loud he talks when we are out but I really dont know how to control it and I dont think he really does either.I also find it impossible to do anything nice with him because he just wrecks it by say eating it (he still puts EVERYTHING in his mouth) or just throwing it or simply walking away after a minute or two. He is also very rough but never violentm he would never go up to his sister and hit her but he does not seem to understand when he is hurting her for example he will sit on her (she is 13 months) and when you tell him off and show him that she is crying he will look shocked and actually get upset that he has hurt her. I dont think he has done this on purpose I think he just doesnt understand that he cant sit on top of her (perhpas that is normal though I dont know).

When I think about it the main problems are actually all about interaction and understanding the ones given above are just examples but in general you are left feeling that there is no communication with him even though you are talking to him or hugging (he does like hugging).

I know these probably sound like strange concerns but does anyone have any ideas how to help with this. I dont know if this is a problem he has or a problem that I have but either way I really would like to move on from this and just enjoy a day with him without worrying about stopping him from hurting himself or someone else or without punishing him or just getting upset at him.

ok I managed to somehow delete my second line which said I have a 3.5 year old son who is my middle child.

Hi Fernie and welcome! did not want to leave your post unanswered. You son sounds lovely. My son is older (10) but so much of your post rings bells. My son still does that persevering with his question without listening for a reply! It as if his brain is ahead of his mouth!
It is good that you on the waiting list for early intervention team. It sounds like you are worried about your sons social communication and also his motor skills and sensory needs. A speech therapist (SALT) would assess the first and an occupational therapist (OT) the latter.
You asked what you can do whilst you wait for the team to help? I would guess that the fastest access to speech therapy assessment/ot/ hearing test are through the early intervention team - however if your area has fast acces via the GP or HV you could ask the gp for referral.
My own approach (ds was non verbal at 3) was to pay for a specialist (ABA trained) salt whilst the system caught up. I could only afford a few sessions but she taught me the basics of how to get my child to interact.
Others will be along soon I am sure.

Hi Fernie, and welcome to the SN board. I agree with Magso about looking to get him seen by OT and SALT. Some SALT departments let you refer directly, so may be worth you phoning up (the number should be on your local PCT web site) to ask. Sometimes surestart/children's centres have professionals such as child psychologists working there that you can talk to, so although they aren't seeing your kid officially you can at least get some advice.

You might it also find it helpful to look at information about sensory issues, and see if that rings any bells - there's a book that a lot of people find helpful called The Out of Synch Child by Carol Kranowitz, that might give you some practical tips whilst you are waiting for him to be seen by early intervention. In terms of the mouthing, you can get things over the internet called Chewy Tubes or Chewelry (think you can get them on ebay) that are designed to be safe for kids to mouth.

welcome fernie, you have found the right place. This board has been my lifeline for two years now.

It's like you're walking along a path and you realise your child's got stuck in a tunnel. Other people seem to expect you to turn around and yell at the child to catch up, but you know that just isn't working, you have to go back and get him!

To make the most of your appointments, keep a diary, so the doctors can see the pattern of problems - often it's the frequency of the misunderstandings that's significant, not any one particular incident. I have always found it helpful to post on this board too - it helps me articulate the problem.
When you get to see them, whatever you do, emphasise his problems in understanding and communication, just as you've done in your post. Say that before anything else.

Your concerns don't sound at all strange - I bet at least one or two percent of boys his age have very similar issues with understanding and communication.

I suppose I'd say:

1. we all find our own way on this board. some of us are bookworms and have read stuff that suddenly opens the door for us and helps us understand what's behind our child's problems. Others have had better luck from consulting the professionals. Some of us have found it helpful to seek a formal diagnosis (better to have a diagnostic label than a label of "naughtiness" is the thinking) others not so.

1. If you do start reading up, take it one book at a time. The out of synch child does sound like a great place to start - don't get too hung up on the label the author uses (SPD?) though - it's the general principles about how your senses and your processing can get unbalanced that are invaluable.

1. There's enough in your post to suggest that this is not naughtiness to be embarrassed about, this is a little boy who is struggling in his development. It's no more embarrassing than having a broken leg. I'd make that as a working assumption.....but stay positive too, believe that his potential is unlimited

1. Things that seem naughty and embarrassing and make your angry now won't have that effect once you feel you've got to the bottom of his problems.

1. Most people in real life are not going to understand, even really nice, wise, intelligent people.

welcome again.

Hi Fernie and welcome too.

Cant really add anything to the great advice you have already been given for the above posters, with regard to who to seek help from. But i have been trying to think of some practical ways which might help, while you are waiting for their intervention.

My ds is now 6, but when he was younger would do the same thing, just keep repeating the same question. I found acknowledging what he was asking helped to improve it (over time)

For example 'can i play lego when we get home' 'yes you can' 'can i play lego when we get home' 'yes you can' and so on and on and on!

instead 'mum can i play lego when we get home' 'yes when we get home you can play lego'

Only a small difference, but it did seem to help to cut down on the numbers of times he needed to ask. I think because he had a speech delay, he just wanted me to acknowledge that i had understood if that makes sense.

I also found ds is very impatience when having to wait for anything, a timer works at home for times when he has to wait, to stop him just asking and asking. I set the timer and tell him when the bell rings we can do whatever, this has also cut down on the number of times he needs to ask.

Also ds bangs and crashes into things and people and cant sit still. OT explained this to me as being linked to the under responsive proprioceptive sense and the need to be extreme to get input back from these senses.

We do 20 minutes exercise, which involves things like rolling ds up in a quilt and applying pressure (as a game of course), marching around stomping our feet as hard as we can, jumping up and down, trying to push the wall down with our hands etc. This has helped to improve the need to get that input in inappropriate ways, like jumping on your brother or climbing up the outside of the stairs and dropping to the floor!

I dont have any suggestions for putting everything in your mouth, as ds is the opposite nothing, not even food goes into his mouth.

Welcome fernie-you will get great and honest advice form some really experienced people here (lingles post always hugely helpful for me so thanks lingle!!)
My DS always crashes into stuff and often sits on his sister-he also need to hug me long and gard-apparently all proprioception as others have said-need to try and gain an awareness of your body in space-lots of pushing/pulling/bounciing on a trampoline and marching hard have helped hugely. is your DS hypermobile (does he seem bendy-"w" siat-ie sit on his bottom between his legs iyswim). Hypermobile children often donr get appropriate feed back from their joints so end up with proprioceptive issues.
I would urge you to seek some advice prior to going to school cos we found it really helpful to have an OT/paed before he even started as reception very hard for DS.
We also do retained reflexes exercises that have made a huge difference-might be worth trying to find a sensory trained OT and certainly refeeral to a developmental paed-you may not need any further help but at least your mind will be at rest!
Good luck

thanks for all your replies!
magso - his speech is actually amazing, he now talks in long complex sentences but it is just meanigless chatter and repeating phrases and questions over and over. Will a speech therapist be able to help with this?. To be honest until recently I have just tried to ignore the whole thing so I have never really thought about taking him anywhere - I might look into other options now. ALl I have done so far is the HV assessment and said it was ok for her to refer him to the early intervention team.

TotalChaos I am going to have a look at the book and chewy things you suggested. I have tried giving him teether type things or even dummies as his mouth gets so sore from sucking on things like his duvet or clothes but he has so far rejected all of these things in favour or blankets (we have had to replace his duvet covers regularly because even after washing they still have a horrible chewed disgusting bit on the corner!)he also puts things like money or once a screw he found in his mouth.He has choked on a two pence not not along properly turning blue etc it was only when my husband vaulted over the stairgate and managed to dislodge it that he started breathing properly again - scary.

It is a shame because my older daughter has so many nice things that all have chew marks on also my husband keeps trying to buy him things like train tracks or the chunky mechano which is really just a choking hazard for him (he is our only boy and we just found out our fourth baby will be a girl so I think my husband would really like him to be able to use some "bigger boy toys"!.

He also keep sticking things up his nose - just a week or two ago I had to use a pliers to pull an orange pom pom out of there!.

lingle - I think you are right about keeping a record of things I have never spoken to anyone about it before apart from at that assesment so its all quite haphazard in my head!.

claw3 - I am going to try being more specific about answers at the moment the phrase I use most in a day is " it just is" or "go and play" or something along those lines because I have already told him something about ten times!which thinking about it must be annoying for him as he probably feels he never actually gets an answer.

Hi as far as I understand it there are salts that specialise in social communication, but this may need to wait for the early intervention team. We worked on listening skills via play. We played games that required listening to what I said (or a tape) - like magnetic fishing (ooh see if you can catch the little blue fish!)- to get ds to hear and act on the instruction (listening is basic to communication).