empathy - how do you experience it please?

[catkinq]

I'm not sure where to ask this - sorry if thsi is the wrong place. What does empathy mean wrt ASD dx please? I know that it is to do with other people's emotions but does it mean "rationally deducing that someone is sad because they look sad/something horrid has happened etc" or does it mean "actually feeling sad yourself". If so then is it somethign that only happens with someone you know (ie you are sad because you like them adn they are sad) or is it more like somehow sharing the emotion?

I'm trying to work out how normal dd is - if I cry then she (9) does not react at all. If you said "is mummy upset" then she'd say "yes, she is crying" so she knows on an intelectual level but it cerainly does not upset her or bother her in the slightest (it is not something that I do often but I was upset today and noticed that sh ewas not at all bothered by the fact).

My DD is almost 12yo, and even now, she can say mum is upset because she is crying, but it doesn't seem to bother her, she doesn't seem to CARE that I'm upset in the same way as DS1 (almost 8yo, NT) does, he will try to talk to me, and tell me jokes to cheer me up, and ask what he can do to help me.

It just doesn't seem to impact on DD at ALL. She's the same at the moment, with me being really ill, she knows that I'm ill because I've been in hospital with pneumonia for a week, and unable to move off the sofa at all for a week before that, or even now that I'm home on total bed rest.

BUT she is expecting everything to run as smoothly for her as it normally does. I spoke to DS1 on the phone this evening (he's at his dad's till Monday), and he was asking if I feel any better, and if there was anything he could do for me, and he hopes I feel better soon, and he sends me big hugs like I give him when he's ill. DD - "Why haven't you been shopping today, it's my comic day and there's no comic for me".

That's the difference between an asd DC and an NT dc!!

LL feeling that last comment from DD - ouch. You know she doesn't get it, the whole you being ill and caring about the fact that you've been away for a week and can barely move, but still ouch.

Her world seems fairly black and white from an outsiders point of view

Ds 6 can identify 2 basic emotions happy and sad. He would be able to identify that crying = sad, but he wouldnt be able to tell what kind of situations would make someone else sad. He is unable to 'put himself into someones elses shoes'.

He shows no remorse for any 'wrong doing' on his part, he will never say sorry.

DS(4.3) knows sad and happy and angry, but he has difficulties linking these emotions to particular events. Such as he can tell when someone is shouting then they are angry but he has trouble linking his wrong doing to mummy/daddy being cross for instance.

He can see when someone is sad or ill especially when crying, but his emotional response to that is flat. He'll ask 'what's matter?' when you answer he'll casually say 'ok!' and that's as far as it goes. He won't have the idea to come over and try to comfort you or anything, but if you ask him for a cuddle he will come over. Although when it comes to crying because of a fall or a cut he will pat his little sister's back when she does hurt herself and he can see the visible bump or graze iyswim.

Empathy is not just feeling sorry for someone (sympathy), it is identifying with them by (generally) imagining or remembering a comparable or transferrable experience in your own life. So, someone fails an exam. You might never have failed an exam, but can remember a time when something that was very important to you, that you worked hard towards didn't work, and as a result you were unable to do something else, perhaps. So you can empathise. Or, someone may be sad because they weren't invited to a party. You can process that the feelings they are experiencing aren't just that they won't be going to softplay on Saturday, but feelings of being left out, not special enough, etc. You can relate to their emotions.

Dd1 can also see if someone is sad or happy but is not bothered if i'm upset, she notices i'm upset but won't ask 'why' or ask if i'm ok.

One of her teachers is leaving in April, all her friends got upset when they found out but dd1 was not bothered at all. One of her best friends left school last month, i though dd1 would be upset but when i told her all she said was 'well who's going to take me to the toilet now?', the fact she was not going to see her again did not bother her at all.

Both my husband and 7 yr old son are AS. If I am upset my husband NEVER asks what is wrong, comforts me, hugs me. He is totally flat and uncaring. He can walk past me crying on the sofa and just go and turn the telly on. It is very hard to live with.

My son will ask why I am upset and expect a full explanation so he can 'understand what things upset people';his words. He cannot read body language or facial expression well. He says he can't tell what people are feeling/thinking by looking at them.

I have to help both of them understand and empathise with others. My DH, mid 40's, is too old to change his ways now and gets angry if I try to mention his social skills but at least my son is trying to make sense of it.

Its hard being the only NT in the house.

I can identify with this - dd will say "can you get out of the way" or "can you do that more quietly please" if anyone is crying. She has now learnt that you are suppsed to say something if a younger child is hurt but clearly does not care - ie will say "oh poor ..." if the younger one is crying but will then immediately stop and go back to what sh eis doing. It is good to hear her trying though.

DS1 will automatically ask "are you alright?" if you stub your toe or do anything that makes you grunt. I'm not sure how much he actually cares about the implications of the answer, since he'll also jump or stamp on us and then ask the same question .

He does demonstrate more convincing empathy when something really does matter to him, though. He absolutely must wear socks. They go on as soon as he's dry after his bath because he feels so uncomfortable without them. DS2 isn't such a fan, but if DS1 is touched by DS2's cold feet, DS1 will immediately insist DS2 has socks because his feet are so cold and they need to be warm. He says it with such urgency and genuine concern, too and will tell his brother why he must wear socks!