I was soooo naive, i thought I had a choice with my sons educational setting.

[misscutandstick]

not been here for a long time, but i wanted to share with you a conversation I had with DS4's Headmistress.

I had a bit of a battle regarding statementing. I didnt even get an assessment (but hey we live in Notts). In a TAC meeting i was told that he would only get a statement when he wasnt making ANY progress at all.

I had xmas off (ie no appts, no battles, no calls, etc)

I then had a change of heart.

I had been looking at this whole thing from only one side - MINE. I wanted DS4 to 'reach his potential' (something very few children actually manage), to gain something from his education, to get as far academically as he could manage... exactly what would this acheive??? he is NOT university potential. He is loveable, cheeky, happy, content, and adventurous (in his way) exploring the world at his pace. what he really needs is social, personal and self-help skills. And quite honestly, he is getting there in his own time and way. he just needs a little longer than most to get the hang of it all.

How is reading /writing/ counting going to help him brush his teeth, or put on his trousers, or even work out what is food and what is not???

NO! my conclusion is: let him be, let him play with his peers (or at least NEAR! ) and just enjoy school.

So armed with my new found conclusion, I head to the Head (having found out that she is the REAL Senco, and not the one that claims she is). I put to her that i would like DS5 to stay in MS and just to ENJOY it rather than to have his velcro'd 1:1 (that we never got anyway!) to learn from peers and just enjoy the experience of school and all that goes with it (laughing running children, playing games, and watching them fight!).

What followed was a bizarre conversation.

cant remember the exact words it was a bit of a blur, think i was astonished at what she was trying to tell me. but basically what she was saying was that he could stay until he no longer progressed - or rather kept to 'targets'. after all "each child is worth 5% of the overall scores, and you know how much pressure is put on schools nowadays to reach targets. so its not really my choice, as to wether he stays or not, more of how hes coping and managing in school. We would hope that at that time we would have a meeting a decide between us where the best for him might be".

So, i cant choose to have him statemented for special school, but i also cant leave him in MS if he doesnt keep up (which hes obviously not going to manage), to just enjoy it...

I thought i had a choice... how naive could I be?

Thank you for sharing, Dd2 is due to start school in September, after being told 'she is too bright for special school' i applied for a place at our village MS school which her sister attends. I am now going over and over in my head whether i have made the right choice for her or if i'm being selfish in wanting her to go to MS. She goes to ms and sn nursery and enjoys the MS more and is getting more out of MS (her speech has progressed since being there). Dd2 is great with numbers and solving puzzles but struggles with communication and socializing, she's happy to play next to other children and happy for others to play with her.

I really don't know what to do for the best, will SN school be wrong for her or will MS be too hard for her?

I want her to reach her potential and make the most of the areas she's good in (maths) but i also want her to servive in society and be able to fend for herself (clothe herself, look after herself).

It's so hard to make the correct choices for our children, if only we could see into the future, i also worry that those choices will be taken out of our hands, i'm worried if we choice a MS school for dd we will not be able to take her out in a couple years (when she struggling) to put her into a SN school, i worry if i put her straight into SN that i will regret not giving her a chance in MS.

Your post has made me think even more about the future.

I hope you manage to get what you wan't for your ds and what he deserves.

The impression i was given was that he would probably be 'assessed/looked at' in around yr1 (outside edge yr2) when there is more expectation placed on them. As he is only in F1 (nursery) at the moment it seems he will stay for another couple of years for now.

Me and DH had already discussed that we probably would want DS4 to move to a specialist setting during yr1/yr2 anyway - as its possible that he would not be ready to be more academic at that time, and not be able to sit and co-operate as would be expected of him at that age.

Unfortunately yet again its a 'wait and see' situation. It just feels like im waiting his childhood out tho sometimes!

It is so hard. DD1 will go to our nearest special school in September. I was told she was too bright to go to SS, but on reading all of the documents, and knowing that they don't ever (i know, blanket policy) give full 1:1 in MS, the LA decided that Special school was the best setting.

But even then, I know that they will only transport her to the nearest SS, so we can't choose between that and one 2 miles further out, for example.

And I was told a few weeks ago, by the lady that was meant to be sorting DD's eduacational future that had I waited for them to start the statementing process, then by the time her needs were assessed, etc, there wouldn't be any places left at the special school. It is only because I did it myself, that she has the place she has.

My decision to send her to Special school is based on the fact that she would have to be 'contained' in MS, and I am hoping that the intensive socialisation that SS will give her will give her the best chance of being able to learn the 'pre-learning' skills that would allow MS to become a possibility.

Hi miscut, why cant you choose to get a statement?

and why cant you choose for him to stay in ms school?

(Sorry i must be naive too!)

hi wondered how you have been

ds went to Ms on a statement but that failed after one term and that was just in reception down to language mostly .We moved areas and before hand went to Ican for assesment who are fantastic would highly reccomend.

They then thought about speech unit but they are saying ds language issues are to severe but its agreed sn is not suitable due to his ,cognitive ablites so were bit to

Bollocks! My gut reaction would be that ANY school that is more concerned with "scores" and the impact an individual child has on the schools results, is not a school that my child would attend.

It may bethat MS is OK for your ds but just not that MS school.
The ethos & nurturing nature of a primary school is far more important than bloody results.

You decide what you want for your ds & stick to your guns. Is there an alternative MS primary that would Welcome & Want your ds.

FWIW my ds2 makes little or no academic progress in his MS primary but he is happy there & they are very happy to have him there.
I don't believe he would make any more academic progress at SN school & while he is still young (yr 2) he is fine where he is.

CLAW: I was told by the head of the statementing peeps (sorry cant remember his exact title) in a meeting (both public and private) that they dont issue statements here (in NOtts, a notoriously difficult place to get a statement) for children who are making ANY progress, no matter how small.

I beleive he is EXTREMELY happy to be in his current MS school. He is not learning anything academically, but he is a more alert/capable/socially aware child for attending his current school.

The school are very happy to have him at this time - the teachers are brilliant with him, and love him to bits. I can see from his behaviour he is enjoying school. And thats what matters right now. When it comes to yr1/2 perhaps the need to conform with the rest of the class may mean that he may not enjoy it so much - we cant tell what effect the more rigid school structure may have on him at that time, and Im willing to see what i need to do then, maybe he will stay where he is, maybe he would be happier in a special school, i dont know...

I have had a look at the ONLY special school for quite a few miles and while the resources it has are fantastic - the children are NOT: running, laughing, teasing, building, playing, splashing, painting, climbing, riding, singing etc etc etc - in fact most at this point are immobile. The older classes are more sociable, mobile, chatty etc - but his current age group are not. And thats NOT what he needs right now.

Truly hope i havent offended anyone with my last statements. XXX

PHOENIX: i too was wondering how you and DS were doing. So where is your DS placed currently? Im at how a child can be 'too severe' for help??? surely he would be an ideal candidate for a language unit? or is it more that his receptive language is too good for the unit???

ANON: I agree entirely, i cant see DS4 making any academic progress at all, but hes simply not ready for that yet, but he is VERY happy in his setting and they are very happy to have him. I honestly think its a 'wait and see' situation - I cant plan for a future that is so uncertain.

The other things i mentioned when i had the chat with the head were: A) the security of the playground (DS4 is a wanderer) and the ONE exit which leads -eventually- to the main road; B) and i asked for a touchscreen for the computer for him.

A) he will have a dedicated 1:1 during ALL outside breaks/lunch (as does another child) - not an ideal option, but its an ongoing issue that has so far taken 3yrs and doesnt look to be solved anytime soon (something to do with public right of way so it has to be left unlocked DOH!)

B) yes, a touchscreen is on the way, no quibble!

Misscutandstick, I had no idea that certain places did not issue statements. I thought it was a basic right! (told you i was naive )

The thing that struck me is that they cant have it both ways ie wont be able to stay at the school if he doesnt progress, but then you cant have a statement if he doesnt progress. Surely it has to be one or the other!

LA's, as much as they want to, cannot have blanket policies to not issue statements. All LAs have policies on the circumstances in which statements will be issued but this cannot circumvent the law.

I would take advice from an organisation like ACE or IPSEA. Also get a copy of the SEN Code of Practice which you can order for free as it sets out the criteria.

LA's routinely refuse statutory assessment requests and then even after they have undertaken one, they refuse to statement. This means you have to appeal to the SEND tribunal. It is a horrible game to see who will push these things far enough. But Tribunals take into account the law as it is not how the LA would like it to be.

IFAIK they issue statements just to get the child into the special school, and thats it.

They use the 'failure to progress after all special measures have been put in place' type comment (really sorry cant remember what the 'code number' was in the code of practice - but he did point it out to me and said that its the only thing they really look at and consider)

Thats the way it works here in Notts - the schools are given a certain amount of money to cover all those students who need extra help. The up side is that the schools dont have to fight to get some money, the down side is that the money has to cover ALL students - fantastic if theres only one child, even better for the school if theres none (yeah, cos that often happens ). They can apply for more money under 'severe needs' causes.

But this means that they arent keen on handing out statements, unless one is needed to get into a special school - and only if they feel that the child needs it, and not that the parents want it for their child.

I was talking to another mum the other day (lovely lady, but not academically inclined) who was told that "for XXXXX's safety, perhaps that when she reaches yr1/y2 she may do better at the special school, as she may get knocked over in the school yard and hurt" - this is code for "your child is practically quadraplegic with not much hope for attaining any academic acheivments, so it would be better for us if she went to special school" - the mum does not want to her to go special school because she wants her DD to be around more able-bodied children, doing 'normal' childhood playing and games. We will wait and see what happens there...

There is a middle ground if your child starts to struggle - he gets more 1-1 support to see if he can be guided through the difficulties (sounds like he only gets this at breaks)
What I think you have stumbled on is the flaw in your LA i.e. the schools get a lump sum and as soon as they are called on to give extra help it will come out of THEIR budget. sounds like your head is trying to pull a fast one here.

Misscutandstick, it works the same way here (i think its the same everywhere, i could be wrong), the school are given funds for children with additional special education needs and you have to prove that your child will warrant a very high level of support or specialist provision to get a statement.

If your ds is not making progress with the measures the school have put in place, this is proof that he needs a higher level of support.

I have never heard of a statement ONLY being given to get a place at special school.

I too think the Head is trying to pull a fast one.

Have you thought about applying yourself for a statement? (thereby giving your ds extra support and allowing him to stay in MS school)

That is the way delegated funding works. Schools are given money to deal with SEN on the basis that they are best placed to know how to spend it.

LAs can then say 'you don't need a statement, we've given the moment to schools so ask them for help'.

However, schools will say 'we haven't been given enough and can't do everything required without additional funding through a statement which LAs won't give'

This leaves the parent in the middle of this mess.

The fact is, however, that LAs cannot say 'we only fund special school statements' because that is against the law. LAs have to be seen to use their discretion in individual cases, so, although it is perfectly acceptable for them to have a policy about statementing, they cannot apply it without considering the individual facts of a case against the criteria.

This is why you have to move away from what the LA say to consider what the law says as this is what a tribunal will look at. IPSEA should be able to help with that and I have found ACE very helpful

What anon said really about MS schools.

We're having issues atm as new Head has pulled all non statement provided support (so all extra reading for SA kids, non statemented social skills work for ds1 and his ASD peers...) in favour of extra worship. So much extra worship that my Christian raised kids ahve now decided they don't beleive any of it because it sounds like brainwashing to them now. Er thanks Mrs!

So ds4 is going we hope to a school further away (I'll have 4 at 4 schools, buggery) because that MS school is inclusive, kind and works well with all children, not just academically achieving kids of a certain breed.

IMO and IME the Head is the key: what he or she is as a person dictates all.

Peachy you are so right! I meant to add misscutandsticks that the attitude revealed by your head's comments is pretty shocking and is doubly alarming that she is actually stupid enough to make comments like that so openly.

Think Disability Discrimination Act too and the Lamb report. Community schools can't just decide some children are not for them.

The problem is that things can become so stressful with a school which has awful attitudes that it may be worth going elsewhere on the basis that life is simply too short for constant crappy battles to secure what you're entitled to....

I agree DEBS, if a school is forced into a certain action which it doesnt agree with, what sort of attitude will they have with the child?

misscutandstick

Ds currently has no school placement at all due to us moving speech unit saying no and noway going back in Ms and everyone agreeing that special school thats here is not suitable .Feeling were going tribunal and i will go mad with the stress