He doesn't know when to stop 'pushing' me! Help!

[Solo2]

DS2 - one of 8 yr old twins - is what I call 'lightly touched with Asperger's - never quite meeting the full criteria but clearly having lots of the traits.

I am finding him increasingly difficult to manage and hope someone could advise me. Basically, he goes ott with everything - eg currently loads of inappropriate 'jokes' with sexual content (he and his twin are now at that age when anything to do with sex/ private parts is a huge laugh). When I call him on it and remind him not to be so rude or say, "That's not appropriate", he won't stop and 'ups the ante'.

His twin, DS1 might have a quick snigger but v rapidly picks up that there's a boundary between what's OK and what's not and will stop. His twin also 'reads' my mood and backs down when he sees I'm getting cross.

DS2 won't back down. In any context when I'm telling him off for some other minor misdemeanour, he reacts with fury and says verbally abusive things to me and even if I can get an apology, he says it grumpily/ angrily and with bad grace.

Whilst again his twin can also be rude and nasty, he knows where the stopping point is. DS2 seems to push and push and then I find I explode and am furious.

DS2 also swears a lot, using four letter words and making word associations with private parts etc (he's hyper-verbal). I know this is also part of a stage he and his twin may be going through, as they approach puberty but he's getting worse and I'm afraid he'll begin to display this kind of thing in public.

The thing is, DS2 is an 'angel' at school. He's never in trouble and seems to know somehow that you just don't say or do the things he says and does at home, in the school setting.

So I'm confused because I'm not sure how much of his behaviour is caused by AS and how much is sheer naughtiness that needs to be corrected.

After exploding, I then calm down, feel incredibly guilty that I've got so cross and we end up hugging and if we don't actually talk anymore (if we do, we just argue), all is well - until the next time.

I've tried many times to talk with him reasonably between times, re-explaining what's appropriate and what's inappropriate and he appears to take it in and says sorry but then he just goes and does it again.

Any ideas please how to handle this better?

Gosh, I don't know and it is a very hard dilemma. The only thing I can think of is what my behavioural tutors tell me about - first, work out what the behaviour is all about, then react accordingly. So if, for instance, he is upping the ante with you as a means of getting more attention, you give it no attention, make one comment then exit the debate. So he learns that the attnetion seeking behaviour doesn't get rewarded. You are just very low key and uninterested. If the behaviour is avoidant, ie to get him out of doing something you've asked him to do , you give a cooling off period, then reiterate your point and he still has to do whatever it was he's avoiding. This can take quite a while, but he learns that starting a row doesn't mean he gets out of homework, or eating tea or whatever. The tricky bit is when it's just downright bad behaviour because he's a tweenager (like my 8 year old can be) and I'm afraid then there has to be some kind of consequence (loss of computer time, loss of playdate, something like that?) as he has to learn that some behaviour is unacceptable and will be punished. Don't know if any of that is of any use at all, but I've found it quite useful with my ASD DS , and (occasionally) stroppy nb DD!

It really doesnt sound like your son has AS. Wouldnt he be naughty at school too? I have no experience of ASD apart from reading up on the subject, but I had a very naughty boy! Your LO sounds as though he is attention seeking and knows just which buttons to press (again not like AS, I would think? ASD children appear more tuned out than tuned in to peoples emotions) Agree with sickof on how to manage this behaviour though. Maybe he feels the need to grab your attention as he's only had 50% of it since he was born a twin?

PS My admiration for mums of children with ASD is huge, even all the physio etc we do with DGS who has CP pales into insignificance when I read about all the challenging behaviours you cope with.

Here's a tip from my recently attended 'positive parenting course'... work out what behaviour you want to see more of. And basically give loads of attention and praise when you see that happening... catch him being good... and the cold shoulder (ignore if you can) the bad behaviour... Make sure you give DC proper full on attention everyday... set aside a regular 10 mins to play with them without interruption, so that they know they're going to get some good attention. and they don't have to act up to get it.

Only work on one thing at a time, so choose your issue carefully.
Have to say, it was all good advice, and improved things between me and DS, although it's easy to forget when they're being really beastly!

I do sympathise, I know what it is like to feel pushed to the very limits, by a DC that seems not to respond to the usual ways of correcting behaviour that another child might respond to.
My DD, age 5.6, has just been diagnosed with aspergers, and can be EXTREMELY challenging. Not in the ways you describe, but in ways to do with sensory issues and total lack of emotional regulation, problems with her siblings due to a lack of ability for co-operative play etc...

beammeupscotty my DD is MUCH more challenging at home than at school, and this is a problem in itself as at school she is quiet and well behaved but lost in her own world and failing educationally. This is a quite common picture in Aspergers, especially in girls who do present differently.

Does your ds have any other issues that make you suspect AS? My DD had LOTS of very varied stuff - social issues, odd (but not delayed) speech,snesory issues, as well as behavioural problems.I think you need to think about the whole picture,as I'm not sure the behaviour in itself would be indiciative os AS. All DC like to test the boundries, and some more than others it seems!

If you are really concerned perhaps asking for an assessemnt might help , either to put your mind atrest or to give you a diagnosis. I put off seeking an assessment for long time, butfeel now having a diagnosis will help us move forward.

Is hepicking up this sort of language and jokes at school? I would be VERY upset if my almost 8 yr old was coming out with things like that, and would be straight up to school to find out where they were getting it from.Perhaps school needs to address the issue if innappropriate jokes and bad language are being used eg in the playground.

Other than that I agree about provididng a lot of positive reinforcement/attention for good behaviour and maybe try ignoring some of his less good behaviour and see how that goes.

Good luck

My son displays this sort of behaviour so I do feel for you. Ds has both ASD and LD and I think he has real difficulty with getting stuck in a pattern and then not being able to distract him self and change to another behaviour. With enough incentive he can learn to overcome some compulsive behaviour patterns. He also does things to annoy me (to get reassurance from repeated patterns and get my attention) and it can be difficult to know the difference. Ds has very delayed language (so we mostly struggle with nonverbal unexceptable behaviour such as licking and spitting) but he finds toilet words very amusing - I think he latched onto them because of the reaction he gets from others. New unacceptable patterns of behaviour need to be stopped as quickly as possible.
Anyway my husband deals with this very well because he is better at staying unruffled than I. I think one trick is to stay calm and refuse to argue or be shocked. Unacceptable behaviour is warned (ds can say toilet words in the bathroom only therefore he will be sent there if he wishes to continue or get a consiquence - all said very calmly). My mistake is to get drawn in sometimes and try to treat ds like a reasonable adult - when he is actually behaving unreasonably. My son is not yet able to think from any perspective other than his own - this is part of ASD. He can learn (it has to be taught) to think of others but as it is not instinctive in the heat of the moment is not available to him and he can only think of one thing at once.
Sorry to waffle!

Hi,
My DS has AS and he too doesn't understand where to draw the line with behaviour. He tend to repeat things over and over and it seems it is because the first time he shouts poo bum or toilet plunger (always something like that)someone immediately gives him attention. Because he likes the attention he carries on. He also gets hyper with behaviour, playing with Dad turns into major unleashing of anger and ends up with injury.
This is constant day in day out. The same injury occuring daily.

One thing I have found is that as he has become older he tell me he desperately tries to fit in at school, he supresses his stimming as much as he can and tries to 'be a good boy'
Also because he gets no individual attention at school he craves it at home. If he belives he can only illicit 'deep' attention by shouting 'bum' then he will do it. Of course, all this pent up AS behaviour has to release somewhere.

My DS has no understanding of why he is not getting attention. 'I am on the phone' or I am doing the washing' are meaningless.

I always explain every thing to him in detail now. If he starts to show attention seeking and I am busy, I tell him I know he wants attention, what I am doing, how long I will be and that when I finish...If he is good...I will come play with him.

This seems to help as otherwise he thinks noone likes him and doesn't want to play with him. He gets that from school though!

Maybe you do all this already, or don't need to but I sympathise with you because havng a small child shouting 'arsehole' repeatedly in the queue at Tesco whilst spinning round gets some funny looks.Lol

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and BTW, he was assessed 3 times from age 2.5 to age 6 and the final, private assessment and most comprehensive, put him on the border sort of just below the absolute criteria for Asps but having lots of those traits. This is partly why I never know what's personality/ haightiness and what's Asps-like compulsion.

Because he's way off the scale good at verbal skills, he's got strengths that compensate for his weaknesses but compared with a typical peer, he's not 'average' in the way he acts and behaves socially and also he has loads of obsessive interests about v uninteresting things that's way out beyond ordinary boy obsessions.

I think you're right - many of you - who say it's partly because he gets lots of attention when he's rude. He's always had to share me with his twin and I'm a single mum with no family. So the twins only ever have me.

My responses to him vary depending on the mood I'm in. I'm trying the positive attention to behaviour I want to see and playing down my negative reaction to the negative stuff. It's a good idea although quite hard, as his twin will call me on why I'm not telling DS2 off for his rudeness.

I suppose I should be grateful he doesn't do it in public. The only thing he ever really did that was a bit ott publicly was to approach strangers in the street and everywhere and ask their names and tell them his, when he was about 2 or 3. Now, he does still ask teachers and other adults very penetrating quesyions about their personal lives but so far, they still find this rather endearing!