DD will soon be catching up DS with her understanding of language....sad.

[mysonben]

in another thread i spoke about the results of DS's SAL assesment at the language unit he goes to.
DS is now 4.3, his understanding of verbal language is that of a 2 years old !! We knew he was quite delayed but not this much. Salt said he has significant delay in that area. His speech sounds and syntax are also dealayed but less (1y to 18 m behind).
DD will be 2 in april, to think he barely understand speech only a little bit than her is so sad. It won't be long she catches up with him then.

It's hard for me to fully understand this, how is DS able to speak significantly more than understand what is said to him.
I mean to be able to talk, first you must have a grasp of the understanding of the words!?? No?? ...

Salt DS saw last year said DS has semantic/pragmatic difficulties, SALTs at the unit agree too. I've googled it up a few times to get an idea.
To put it simply could it be he knows the words but doesn't get the meaning of words in a long sentence it gets muddled up in his mind somewhere.

Tbh, this new piece of information regarding his communication makes me rethink the statmenting issue. EP still maintain he'll be fine entering reception next september on action+. ... as his understanding is so delayed especially with asbtract concepts, it would be like sending DD to school in a few months! Ridiculous.
How is he going to cope???
DS relies on visual cues Pecs, makaton...anything concrete to augment his understanding.
Also he is always looking at what the other children do, when nursery teacher gives instructions.

(( )). you've had a hell of a week! It's hard enough comparing with younger kids, let alone younger siblings. I would also push for centile levels as well to boost your case for statementing. And speak to the school head/senco now to update them re:DX/SALT findings to see if you can get them on board with statementing at this stage.

Thank TC, yes i was pondering this. Salt from langauge unit has now contacted Senco and EP. She said she would be be also visiting the future school.
Will be asking for the exact centile levels and i think we need to take decision DH and i about the statment. We have left it... pondering and wondering since last year, not knowing who to fully trust in all of this.
Autism team paed last week said DS will be needing much support when starting school.She said she'll be contacting EP to see what will be set in place for him. Probably not enough by the sound of things...

Dd2 (3.10), had the understanding of a 15 month old less than a year ago, now she has the understanding of a 2.9 year old (according to SALT). We still use PECS and she has started to sign (makaton) when she speaks. Dd2 can now say 100's of words put does not understand most of them. In the past 4 months she has gone from following one word instructions to 4 word instructions (eg, dd2, put the black brick on the small table).

What i am saying is don't give up hope, he could suddenly move forward and grasp language and understanding.

How often is he seeing SALT?

Dd2 will be starting reception in september and i'm also really worried, we are trying to get her statemented for full support, she will be using PECS and picture scheduals ect to help her through the day.

Thanks Marne, DS has salt twice a week so that's 5 h in total, he goes to a language unit.

It's just so frustarting to have to battle for everything, it took DH to have to literally pester Salt office last year before they got him a place in the unit. They were happy with giving him 5 or6 sessions a year of salt before that. Nowhwere near enough!
Now EP doesn't budge she still maintains he won't 'qualify ' for a statment as she says his needs are not severe enough.
And of course we haven't got a final formal asd dx for him, going through process with Cahms atm.

I know i'm not alone and there are so many parents in the same situation, but it's just draining and i get so fed up with it all at times.

DD1 has the understanding of a 2.11, according to salt, and DD2 is already 2.5.

The differences are stark even now. DD2's language acquisition is just so natural, effortless. DD1's is stilted and 'lifted' from people she has heard.

Hi mysonben,

Re your comment:-
"EP still maintain he'll be fine entering reception next september on action+".

Yeah right . Sorry but have heard this line spouted too many times now hence the . If EP told you this then this person is telling you a big lie. Also EPs are under pressure from their employers i.e the LEA not to readily statement.

SA plus is really not worth the paper its written on. It is not legally binding (unlike a Statement) and can only offer limited support (no one to one for instance and certainly no SALT).

Statements can take six months to set up so you need to get your skates on if you want it in place before September. I would in your shoes be applying for the Statement from your LEA asap.

You need to write to the Chief Education Officer at your LEA and give this person six weeks to reply. Mark that date on your calendar.

www.ipsea.org.uk. They have model letters you can use.

Re this comment as well:-
"Autism team paed last week said DS will be needing much support when starting school.She said she'll be contacting EP to see what will be set in place for him. Probably not enough by the sound of things... "

There certainly won't be much in terms of support and this is why you need to apply for the Statement asap.

You are your child's best - and only - advocate.

mysonben,

Re your comment:-

"Now EP doesn't budge she still maintains he won't 'qualify ' for a statment as she says his needs are not severe enough".

Bollocks to that!!. I am sorry for the rude word but you are really being mucked around here as well as being lied to.

It all smacks of blanket policy which as LEAs know is against the law. Statements are issued on basis of need (not cost), to say that your DS would not qualify as his needs are not severe enough smacks of a blanket policy. Such a blanket policy is illegal in law, LEA's are not allowed to discriminate like this.

Do apply for the Statement and be prepared to be in dispute with the LEA.

Would also arm yourself with a copy of the SEN Code of Practice booklet (which I think is online).

Yes DS is quite similar he has set phrases for so many things, requests... his own spontanous speech is seldom. DD who is nearly 22 m, already speaks 2-3 word phrases and understand and respond quickly to instructions. DS is ok with usual daily things that he knows well, but take him into an unfamiliar context and his delays and difficulties are obvious.

I did explain this to the salt actually, i said before we were worried because DS didn't talk, then when he started talking we soon got worried that his speech is somewhat devant from the norm. His speech acquisition is very different than what ds1 was .

Thanks Attila, for the links, will now be applying for statment, we have reach the point where we need to do it, no one else will do it for us, and with new evidence brought up by salt assesment results it is now clear DS will need support more than what is been offered atm.

Something else that makes me is what EP said at our last meeting when we spoke about Cahms paed putting DS forward for full dx assesment (paed did also verbally comfirm that DS has autism), well EP said 'children with severe communication disorders can appaer very much like autistic children' (yeah we've heard that one before!), but the point is she used the word 'severe' to describe DS' difficulties in communication.
I didn't pick her brains out in it at the time, ii should have!! what has happened to 'his needs are not severe enough!!'??? See what i mean.

They fit the child to the provision they want to pay for not the provision to the child. Even supportive reports won't help against a blanket policy. We have reports saying DS needs specialist direct daily teaching (including from the LA ed psych). My LA are currently ringing round mainstream nurseries trying to get one to take him. His delays are at least as bad as your DS and his ASD far more severe. We haven't had 5 hours of SALT in 9 months. You cannot trust anything, you have to get the statement. While your DS is in the language unit you are getting the rolls royce - when you get to reception it will be the rusty old ford cortina. You can use the evidence from the assessment and the progress in the unit to say this level of SALT support has to continue, his progress mustn't be interrupted. The unit should be able to help you say that the level of support he gets there is whats needed and without it he will lose more ground. Are you going to be able to stay at the unit with the dx?

i would ask for the % as well as that seems go down well with Lea , ds is in bottom 2% for understanding and below 1% for speech and it is only now are Lea beginnning to listern and fingers crossed ds will get s&l unit with amemended statement ,oyour childh and so you realise phone calls between you and salt can count as their salt time or salt and lsa .Salt might rarerly spend actuall time with

ds has had 1hr of salt in the last 6 months ,

But he did have 2 days at ican and its their report that will be using to kick theLea with

You need to be clear yourself how severe your DS is DD1 was 4.0 when she scored an age equivalent of 2.11 on the RDLS, and that put her at the 5th centile. What swings in our favour there is that outside test conditions, her centile will plummet because of her sensory and attention issues.

But whilst our SALT (TW - Don't know if you have same one ) wouldn't tell me any more than 'she'll need help at school', all year, when it came to statement time, she had to give an accurate report, which is 'severe language delay, severe speech delay, severe listening and attention problems'.

Grumpy, i see what you are saying, i agree with everything you said, provison for children is a sorry state of affair, it just isn't right. I know we were fortunate that DS got a place at the unit, mainly it was DH's sheer persistance for several months that paid off (DH went into overdrive manic mode when community paed first mentioned asd) as for 2 years Salt was quasi non-existant before that. We were told 'not enough salt , too many children needing salt, longggg waiting lists' as an excuse.

Sadly no children with asd dx are allowed to remain at the unit, but as DS is supposed to be seen again by Cahms for his ADOS not before May possibly June, and as his place at the unit ends in July even with a formal dx we have been told that at this late stage he is more than likely to remain at the unit for the full summer term.

Phoenix, about ICAN can i ask you how much it costed for a full assesment ? I supposed they did give you a copy of the assessment results without quibble. The unit says we can't have a copy of the results, but we can see them.

people seem to understand % better than age level .

Best i got is the salt are not allowed to mention where our children should be tautgh Lea will not allow them to say it.

ds test`s at ican was xmas when we got the % he was 4.6

Sorry - forgot to add. The inclusion officer suggested we wait until New year to decide whether special school was needed, and suggested that statementing could be started at Christmas. I phoned on September 1st and told her I had decided to apply myself. DD1 has been given s special school place, but the inclusion officer admitted that if she had been statemented later then all the special school places would be gone, mainstream wouldn't get full 1:1, and in her opinion DD would definitely need it in MS!

Write that letter today x

Lou i am unsure about the exact centile at this moment in time, i will be quiering this on Wednesday. All i know is what Salt said this afternoon, understanding is on level of a 2 y old, when visual cues/prompts are used it is much better, syntax is at level age 3, speech sounds/prononciation at about 2.5 y old.
Salt said DS has moderate to severe language delay/disorder.
That's it. The last time DS was formally assessed for SAL he was slightly more than 2 years old. The gap in his delays and difficulties with language have defo got worse since then.

Thnak you all for wise advice and all the info.
Will get onto it pronto.

My sonBen

full assesment is £1300.But give them a call depending on income they will subdise also someone from asssement team will call you back and discuss it
.Dependning where you are need factor in hotels think i paid £52 a night for family room including breakfast in chertsey

, but ds spent time with a salt, ep , ot and speacialist teacher over 2 days .I got a full report and breakdown from each person .They did a lot of nationaly recognised assesments as well, ones that the lea use themselves.His report was split up but just over 40 pages of usefull info and bullet points at each section for lea simpletions

Ds has just had statment review nd i called it on bases of the report , Ds salt and speaclist teacher (mind he only seen them once* both was impressed with it .

It is well worth every penny first time ever i know where ds is even though not good news..

also i took it into S&l unit I want ds to go to and they said it was the best report they seen beat anything Lea provided for them and they have told me long as I can get Lea to offer ds a place.but thats a whole other thread

.Based on that report alone they will offer ds a place

Cheers for the info Phoenix. I'm glad the assesment and the report were worthwhile. All the best with your DS 's place at the unit.

My son sounds very similar to your at that age. He too used a lot of speech gleaned from programmes, etc. However, his understanding was pretty good most of the time. He never got any therapy ever. His speech did improve and I'm sure your son's will as well. I remember wondering when he was 5 when he would ever get the hang of pronouns. Then when he would ask 'why' questions (then when he started he didn't stop!) He will start to communicate more and chat when his sister has caught up with him. Younger siblings teach their older ones a lot I found in my experience.

We fought to get him into a special school at secondary level. There he gets 1 to 1 SALT once a week plus a group lesson. It's fantastic. His speech is amazing and his use of vocabulary just superb. He still has difficulties but they are not noticeable. He is 15 now (blimey) and

I had a private SALT assessment done - it was £500 and it was brilliant.

Now I teach lots of kids with ocmmunication difficulties and their therapy well its me. I'm no SALT and although I do my best its a very stretched best. I'm a bloody good teacher but I also have to fit in all the literacy stuff etc etc etc. We have a fantastic LEA SALT who is brilliant at assessment and I trust her judgement - she hits nails on the head every time BUT that's all she has time to do - assess. There isn't any therapy.

Comparing the two systems I am so glad I chose the route I did for my son. The more difficulties you can get your son assessed for the better in the world of SEN and the reason they don't want you to have a statement is that then you can apply for a special school placement. I would go down the therapy holistic type route every time.

fingers crossed ds will get his unit he does not have asd his problems ae related to verbal/oral dyspraxia and dvd .

But i know they do lot of work with dc and asd

MY dd2 has just had an EP assessment and i pushed to get an answer to my question: language delay or disorder? Told it was SALTs job to decide, replied SALT had said it was EPs job... finally got "receptive & expressive language disorder".
Dd2 has had a grand total of 3 hrs of SALT over 1 year. Currently on the long waiting list for more. Sucks. Now dd2 will have language therapy at some point (more waiting).

I was told by EP that dd2 at 4.6 is far too young to be considered for something like SPD, that we'll have to wait until she is much older (8+) before that could be looked into