ASD Sameness and rituals ...a question?

[mysonben]

We have noticed that as B is getting older, his rituals are increasing so does his need for sameness.

When he was young at about 2, his main ritual was to do with lining up his sofa cushions in the morning, also watching the same dvd or lining stuff up, and of course what foods he ate (we had this from weaning).

When he was 3, he had the cushions one, and the 'he must be the one to prsee the buttons on tv and dvd', he soon developed his going to the loo routine after our potty-training breakthough, the leaving the house ritual appeared along with the getting in the car one, and the arriving at nursery ritual. He also became choosy with what clothes to wear, where to sit, what plate he should have.

Now he is 4, we still have all the above plus he will not accept anything that is not 'whole or perfect', such as petit filous pots must be still attached to each other when he eats them, rejects broken biscuits or half a slice of bread or cake, bananas must be totally unblemished... we also have stuff like PJs must always be matching, pants and vests too, socks as well, same with bedsheets, ex: he had dribbled onto his pillowcase so i changed it and he went ballistic so i had to change the whole duvet too, he has a specific way to put his coat on and shoes laces must be very equal (he always check!), he will only wipe his hands on the same coloured towels (the dark ones) and scream if i present a red one to him, he is unflexible on where he sits in the car which was a pain when my mum was here visiting as she couldn't fit in between the two car seats so we had to move his booster seat to the middle and he yelled all the way screaming 'seatbelt'!??, his train track set must be always set in the same way the way Dh does it with no full circles or hell breaks loose,...

Do you see what i mean? He is becoming more and more picky about more things, and is adding new rituals with each passing year.

Have you noticed the same with your dc?

Yes. It's crap. J also has additional germ issues, which CBT did help with but the rituals get worse when he's stressed and have also got worse as he's older. We've tried tackling them in order of annoyingness to the rest of the world, but not always been successful. Sorry!

that's what i was afraid of...
we also pick our battles with the rituals as there are times when we can let him rule the roost as he sees fit!

oops ...bloody keyboard is sticking. meant to say 'can't'

Mysonben, DS has got easier as he is getting older. He does prefer logos like thomas, bob the builder, but not fixated on wearing them. He used to line things up every now and then when he was between 2-3, but he does not anymore. Between 2-3 he only ate yogurt and drunk mango juice, now I can even give him spinach and he eats without any fuss. So the answer to your question for us is no. He does like to flush toilet and if left to it, he will do for at least half an hour. He has started this since starting school, so this may be due to stress. He uses toilet as an escape when he is faced with something new, we think.

DS2's peaked at about 3.0. Much much better now.

But I agree flexibility is the big challenge.

flushing toilet as escape from something new - yes that's exactly what DS2 used to do. it was also to do with the desire to "conquer" the toilet as he potty-trained late.

I have to say that given all the attention adults direct at toilets during potty-training, which can go on for months,it's not that surprising the kids take an interest in toilets.

DS2 (6yo)has changed his rituals as he gets older...last year he had to always have 5 bus tickets in his pocket before leaving the house, since his birthday it HAS to be 6. I'm starting to worry that when he's 30yo he'll need a suitcase to cart his bus tickets with him! It's the same with his cars as well, he now lines up 6 cars instead of 5.

DD (almost 12yo), well, you'd just better not bother trying to give her a different breakfast on a school day, she has cornflakes, and the milk in her bowl has to be at a VERY precise level, or she will just scream milk not right milk not right over and over until you either take some out/ put more in. BUT she has to have crumpets on a saturday and sunday. Mornings HAVE to go get up at 7am, sit on chair and 'veg' until 7.15am, up table with cornflakes dead on 7.15am, get down from table at 7.30am, brush teeth and wash face by 7.35am, get dressed by 7.50am, brush hair by 8am, check bag and pockets innumerable times, and leave door by 8.10am. She melts down if even one thing is done out of order or at even one minute later than it should be. Which is baffling as she still can't tell the time on a digital clock....You don't even want to know what happens if I sleep through my alarm.....

Five point scales really helped my ds to come to terms with flexibility. Foods for example used to be 'hated' and 'loved' - 5 point scales helped him see shades of grey and he can now eat things that aren't favourites but just OK.

Same with 'friends' and 'enemies' as he used to describe people - now he has another category 'people I get on OK with'.

I have to agree it seems to change with age, sometimes for the better. Ds has grown out of a lot of his need for sameness and routine, and can be quite flexible now at 11.

I would predict it might get worse before it gets better. School will be stressful and perhaps not as predictable as it ought to be, so if he's craving sameness for stress reasons it could be more evident from then.

We've had some success with setting SMART goals, with pre-agreed strategies for achieving them and regular progress meetings to see how he's doing. But I have to add ds was 8-9 before we could do that in earnest, before that it was largely down to luck what he'd cooperate with, and I put most of that down to school stress.

With DS2 it's like there's a permissible scope of variation, a bubble within which changes can occur. My job is to try to increase that scope/stretch that bubble to include more and more changes.

We have made huge progress (am thinking of willingness to try new clothes/shoes, that kind of thing).

As his language is coming along so well now, I'd like to find some kind of framework for assessing and increasing his flexibility.

I recall Greenspan saying that perseverative behaviour tends to fade as imaginative play and logical thinking develop, so it may be that the best way to address flexibility is to keep working on the growth of other areas?

I think the perseverative behaviour is the flip-side, the negative image, of underlying problems in other areas. For instance, DS2 is very controlling about me doing certain things (using the loo, playing musical instruments, singing) in a way that he isn't with anyone else. And I think that's to do with the fact that he's still figuring out things about where I end and he begins.

And with the clothes/shoes thing, I think the former fussiness was the flip-side of not understanding concepts like growing, and how weather can make you too hot or cold.

As with the language, I always think of DS2 as having got a bit stuck going through a tunnel. I think you have to go back to the place in the "tunnel" where the child is stuck and lead them out, not just stand at the tunnel entrance calling them to come and join you. So you have to acknowledge the strength of their feelings and work very slowly and follow their lead, capitalise on those moments where they indicate they are ready to try something new.

sorry this sounds like I'm advising others but I'm really just talking about DS2 and me.

Does anyone have any reading material they can recommend me other than Greenspan for working on flexibility?

oh streakybacon (have you name-changed? do I know you as someone else?) your five-point scales sound interesting.....

A few people on this board commented last year that the ages 2-4 are the worst. And when I read that I sort of didn't believe it, as I couldn't see DS2's behaviour getting any better. But you know what, it has! The past month has been so much easier behaviour wise.

DS2 used to be very precise about certain things, shoe colour, bedding, he had to have two of everything (especially food), never takes his socks off etc. He has become easier in some of these although they have been replaced with different (but more manageable) things. I can now change his socks more than twice a week

2-4 are bad, but I do think that it can get worse again on transfer to secondary school. And

backtolingle - I've been streakybacon for a couple of years now, used to use a version of my own name.

I've sent my 5 point scales to a few people over the years, Star Wars themed and Lord Of The Rings - perhaps you were one of them

LOL no I think I'd remember that! sounds like your lad is older, mine's only 4.

DS2 is 7 & we ahve had to be very careful about not allowing him to dictate too many routines.
He is still a nightmare & won't tolerate broken food... Everything has to be EXACTLY as it is meant to be.

His psych ahs been very clear about the risks long term of such prescriptive behaviour.
Basically the more entrenched these OCD type behaviours become the more difficult theya re to change.

We are constantly workign on changing one or two small things at a time so that the list of what he will & won't do doesn't get longer & become all controlling.

Meant to say, on a positive note, as his language skills have improved Im able to explain things to him which ahs reduced his anxiety & therefore reduced his rituals.

Hi, this is interesting. Is Greenspan a person? Or a website? Sorry, new to mumsnet, mother of asperger 12-year-old son.

Thanks everyone for replies.
I am relly hoping that once DS' speech and especially understanding increases the rituals will fade a little.
It seem most of his 'essential' rituals are focused on transtions from one activity to another like leaving the house , arriving at nursery, getting in the car,... and we know from experience that transitions are difficult for B. Once he has passed that initial gap he usually co-operates with the new activity, the trick is getting him to start it in the first place.

Greenspan is a doctor. He wrote a lot of good books on asd and sn. 'engaging autism' which is brilliant been just one of them.