Non-verbal - definition?

[sphil]

One of my friends described DS2 as 'non-verbal' today in casual conversation. It didn't really upset me - but it did bring me up with a bit of a jolt. I wondered if that's how others see him and if I'm being a bit optimistic in descrbing him as 'verbal.

He uses single words and a very few learned phrases. He'll say 'I want X please' but you have to prompt it. He only uses words to request - very very rarely to comment. We can understand his speech but it's obvious to me that others often can't - even words I think he says quite clearly. He babbles a lot and mixed in with this are real words and phrases, usually echolaic, which are not in context (to me anyway - they may be to him!).

I guess to describe him as 'verbal' suggests an ease with words which he most definitely doesn't have. But I wouldn't describes him as non-verbal - unless to other people that means unable to communicate clearly in words outside his immediate family (and 1:1s at school). I sometimes describe him as 'minimally verbal' but don't like doing so - seems very negative when he works so hard to communicate!

hmm, an interesting one.

I often find myself at a loss as to how to describe dd1.

she is verbal (oh boy is she verbal - never a silent moment around here!), but I think of her as the verbal equivalent of a hyperlexic toddler - she is able to say anything, but in most situations, she is just doing a very sophisticated version of babbling (or singing constantly) - making noise, which is langugae in origin, but is not always used for a clear purpose. lots of talking, but nt really saying anyhitng, I suppose.

so she can sing and recite stories (and join in with doing so, socially), but conversation? forget it.

she does request things, and si able to doso more or less freely, and she does comment on things too. so she is most definitely verbal, but I do feel I am undrmining her problems when I describe her as verbal to professionals etc, who then want to set targets that she has no hope of reaching.

Hmm, yes, I'm with silverfrog (and not the first time I have noticed similarities with our DDs either!!). DD is a real little chatterbox, never shuts up, but doesn't "communicate" much at all.
Riven I guess is coming from a different viewpoint. Her DD is definitely non-verbal - i.e. she can't speak. However, from what Riven has said in the past, her DD actually has better understanding of language and when enabled to do so can begin to communicate (you had a post once about your DD asking a question - asking how her carer was. Well, my DD is the same age and although highly verbal that level of language is still beyond her. You've also posted about your DD being able to use yes and no to an extent. Also beyond mine. Poor comparison but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at).
Don't know, TBH!! DD is definitely non-verbal at school as she doesn't speak at all (bit like selective mutism, I suppose). I guess we make the mistake of confusing being verbal with being able to communicate. Definitely NOT one and the same thing.

You see, apart from the babbling/jargon which is more like verbal stimming than communication and is only ever done to himself rather than directed at others, every word that DS2 says to someone else is designed to get him something or tell the person something, ie. to communicate. So although he's not verbally sophisticated, he is communicative - all his language has a purpose. Or am I just fooling myself?

Perhaps I shall describe him as 'verbally minimalist' in future instead of 'minimally verbal'

i would wonder to , ds never made anything other than grubting for years he now trys to make speech sounds , but when they tested he came out below 1% fo expressive and 2% for receptive ,but liking verbally minimalist think going have to pinch that one

Yeah, sorry Riven, wasn't meaning to imply your DD was verbal! Just agreeing with the others that being verbal isn't the same thing as being able to communicate (although I guess being verbal is a good start - implies they might get their in the end with the right help). I like alternatively verbal

I think it means different things to different people. I don't think being verbal implies good communication (certainly not in ASD context) and equally you can be a good commumicator without verbal language - You could be completely literate but non verbal. Sphil's DS is in that uncertain zone where there are deficits in both verbal language and communication (like my DS) . But in his case, it's not very accurate to say he is non verbal if he is requesting and commenting - verbal but with language disorder ? But I know what you mean as when people ask the big 'Can he talk ?' question, I'm not sure what to say as yes he can talk but in a more limited and repetitive way than any NT child. It's all purposeful repitition though - He can tell us 10 million times that the escalators are not working.