Give it to me straight - easier or harder as they get older?

[lou031205]

DD1 (4.1) is a challenge when out. I took her to the shops, which I don't usually do on my own, but had said that I would before I realised it would be on my own, IYSWIM.

We were doing ok with a firm grip (I hadn't brought the wrist strap because I didn't anticipate stopping anywhere with her). But then I said it was time to pay the pennies. She didn't want to stop shopping, so the meltdown began.

I had to try and keep hold of her in the queue, whilst holding a heavy basket & her straining away from me.

Then she tried to take things off of the shelf. I managed to avoid it, but by the time we got to the checkout, there were several boxes of creme eggs stacked by the till, and she was trying to empty them out.

I had to pin her between my legs, as I tried to deal with the cashier, but then she grabbed other stuff.

I had to pick her up and hold her in one arm, while typing the PIN with the other, as she was kicking, screaming, pinching, trying to bite, etc. screaming "let me have my bowleat" (something to eat).

The looks were terrible, it was really quite humiliating.

But then it occurred to me that if she gets much stronger, I might not be able to physically control her. She seems to get so much stronger when she is in a meltdown.

Remembering what your DC was like at around this age, do they get easier to take out alone as they get older, or harder? I am wondering whether she will 'mature' so get easier, or get stronger, and harder

Dd1 (now 6) has got easier to take out, she does moan that her feet hurt/legs ache but no longer grabs things or screams in public.

Dd2 (almost 4), i will only take her shopping if she's in the buggy or in a trolly as she grabs things and lies down on the floor if she doesn't want to move.

I think it depends on how good there understanding is, i can now explain to dd1 that she cant have something or its time to leave and if i get stuck i can bribe her, dd2 still doesn't have enough understanding so i just have to leave with her screaming.

Sounds just like taking ds shopping! I would say he has got better in some ways, he doesn't lie on the floor now so I don't have to do the 'paying while pinning him with my legs' thing. He doesn't freak out at the lighting, or background music, or too many people in the shop, and so I can at least pop in the supermarket (very quickly!) for a couple of things or he isn't bad in local shops where the till is near the door and I can leave him to pace the aisles.
Unfortunately I have to say he is too strong for me to do much else . I couldn't hang on to him at all in Sainsbury's the other day and had to ask if I could quickly pay at customer services. The girl was really helpful and packed my stuff for me while I hung on to him for grim death but it was a bit embarrassing (and I usually have the thicker skin nowadays!).

Sorry, I'm not very helpful, it sounds awful I know, but as I say he is better in that he isn't upset nowadays, just can't stand still for a second and doesn't pay attention. If I have dh or dd with me to help it isn't too bad. We even managed a bit of Christmas shopping with him this year! (although it did give me extra grey hairs ).

No easy answer, many, many things are easier as his understanding has improved I am now able to explain & as his language skills have im proved he is (for the most part) able to tell me what is upseting him.

He has never been a runner (he also has CP)but would drop to the floor.

Thankfully those incidents are fewer BUT he is 7 & big & i can't just pick him up now & remove him from a situation, so the bad meltdowns are worse iykwim, but there are far fewer of the lower level meltdowns & distressing behaviours.

He is also more tolerant of sensory stuff & doesn't get so overloaded.

But his refusal to leave the house is 100 x worse & i can't just pick him up & chuck him in the car or strap him in his w/chair now as he is too heavy.

Just to give a positive - yes much better ! I can now let him walk on his own and call to him to catch up if he falls behind - It always makes me feel so excited (about something so 'normal') as we could not have done that last year. He is 5

Umm, my eldest who as far as I'm aware hasn't got any special needs behaved like that at that age anyhow! I always took wrist-straps, baby-reins and pushchairs with me and weathered any withering remarks - and acquired big biceps: I know quite a few children who behave like that! I guess it stems from frustration at not realising the lovely activity is about to end: maybe more prior warning is required? My second son, who is still being diagnosed, is by contrast a complete poppet round the shops!

Nevermind embarrassment with people you'll never see again: what can you do to help YOU? Could you take her to part of the shop where you can buy her a distraction for her to look at on the way round? We have a lot of Hotwheels cars from that era! ;-) Or give her an old (but working) mobile phone to play with? Or perhaps head off to ELC and get a shop till and a trolley and play shops at home ad nauseum so she gets the idea of the shopping drill including the paying part, then when you're in a real shop give her responsibility for 'her' shopping in her own little trolley/basket which she can unload at the till, then use her finger to key-in your pin number for paying? Followed up by an already well-rehearsed incentive to leave because she's going somewhere better or getting something nice when she gets home . . . ? Seems to me that all children like things with novelty value: the more often she goes shopping the more she'll know what's expected and the less exciting the event will seem . . .

Just my happeth! ;-) R

Thanks for all the replies. I wasn't at all prepared, so no surprises that she didn't cope. We normally do the practicing what is going to happen thing, but I was in a hurry. All my fault.

My DD has got harder to cope with as she's got older, she's now almost 12yo, and almost as tall as me. I DON'T shop with her with me. I think I do it once a year just to remind myself why I no longer do...I go when they are at school, or I shop online. sorry. .

DD has got easier (better understanding of language so more likely to respond when I tell her clearly what to do) but still very sensory seeking so will climb / drop to floor / grab.
What's worse now is that DS (2.5, NT) will copy her, lying on the floor giggling saying "up off the floor please!". I find the combination of delayed 5 year old and stroppy 2 year old a bit like having twins sometimes!! Some days it can take us 45 mins to walk home from school (takes me 8-10 on my own!)

DS has definately improved as understanding increased, and I discovered by trial and error what to avoid and what helped. But his strenght and size means a lot of things are not worth going into the situation in the first place, now that I dont have the backup option of picking him up.

I was quite stressed at the thought of how hard his increasing size would be and how restricted our lives could become (despite the recommendations from professionals - "You mustnt let him restrict your life too much" Umm helpful! Thanks!).

I put a lot of work into getting him to do things by persuasion, at times when he was calm and we werent under pressure. It was slower but seemed to pay off. He responded very well to learning how to cope with things when there wasnt any pressure and on a good day we can do things I thought wouldnt be possible. Still a long way to go and just hoping it continues like this.

I would also say I completely gave up on attending things like birthday parties, meeting people for coffee with him etc. Things which only stress him out and are exhausting for both of us, warding off a meltdown. This Im told comes under the heading of restricting our lives - but our quality of life has improved no end and the meltdowns have decreased.

It is however easier to do this when there is no other child and I would have to stay that there being no father in the picture at all means I was highly motivated (by fear of being unable to handle him!)to start laying the groundwork before he got too strong.

Brioche, I know the twins feeling - DD1 is 4.1, and her younger sister is 2.5 (the youngest is 0.9). I regularly feel like I am being tag-teamed, and then DD2 starts copying DD1's phrases like "you said no me", or "I want bowleat", or "fright! fright!".

Only time will tell, I guess.

loudlass - that is exactly what I thought today "I remember now why I don't do this."

leavingonajetplane (love that name!) birthday parties and coffee are absolutely shattering. DD1 loves the idea, but can't cope with the reality.

My worst supermarket story was when I had all 3 with me and DS1 and DS2 (NT) was grabbing the chocolates off the shelf which was positioned just at toddler height to the side of where you had to pay. And as fast as I was putting them back they were grabbing more off and laughing and laughing that I couldn't keep up. eventually I had to stop to pay and the woman was giving me evil looks and I was really embarrassed but was so cross because they had put me in that situation so I paid grabbed the boys and shoved them back and as I rushed out I said "its a nightmare when you put chocolates where the kids can grab them" and I knew that DS2 had been biting the chocolate (with the wrapper on - he was teething) and it had massive bite marks on it but I just shoved it back anyway! Then I went and sat on a bench and cried. And I can't even blame SN as it was my other kids playing up.

One of the parents in DS class held the birthday party during school hours in the classroom. Everyone coped as it was integrated into the routine as an activity and the usual TAs were there. This is a special school, a small class and an understanding teacher. Will be shamelessly copying the idea one of these years come DS birthday. A party at home would be the type of thing thats great in theory but no-one would actually benefit in practice.

On the encouraging side I found as DS got older that we could narrow down what triggers meltdowns more exactly -being "trapped" in the checkout ailse between 2 "walls" in his case and that helped a fair bit.

I dont know what your DDs diagnosis is but I found Olga Bogdashinas books very useful to get more of an idea of what the world feels like to my son (she interviewed many high -functioning individuals with ASD. They came from a very different and enlightening perspective on special needs.

Hope you have recovered from your shopping trip

I live abroad in a country which DOESN'T have chocolates all over the place to tempt children at check-out (curiously enough, it's one of the least obese nations in Europe): I'm surprised there is't a mumsnet campaign to get the practice banned! The amount the shops make from selling extra bars of chocolate should easily cover all the incidents of them being randomly grabbed and bitten: stuff 'em! Serves them right for being manipulative.

my DS was hyperactive and rampaged round waitrose like whirlwind. He learned to climb onto empty check outs, crawl up the and switch on the tills. I'd learned how to switch it off (watched exasperated assistant), and was doing this one day with a very full trolley. I'd put huge packet of soap powder underneath on the little tray (not to mix it with food) and, what with hoiking DS of the till and switching it off several times, and putting food in bags etc. (absolutely no help packing)I missed the soap powder and was stopped by manager as I left the shop . I was MORTIFIED. Felt like saying 'couldn't you see my problem??' and 'why did no-one help??' but too embarrassed. Got ticked off and spoken to like a bank robber, and warned they would prosecute next time! Talk about lack of empathy. DH went shopping with me after that - its the only answer, though he did get better when I was able to bribe coerce negotiate with him as he got older.

Hi Lou! I almost stopped taking ds shopping around 4 - for reasons similar to your experience. However it has got easier. We used to do short training trips buying robust items ds could help with or liked, but never a full shop. Somehow life was easier when he could be constrained in a buggy with a banana or slice of bread! Now he is 10 I can do a quick shop but it is still hard work as ds cannot do boredom and needs constant involvement to keep his hands and mind occupied. For some reason he is facinated by the fish counter, so between the toy isle ( next to the veg) and the fish counter I can sometimes leave him looking and grab items within sight of him. He has a nintendo ds (life is SO much easier since ds learnt to use that!) to keep his fingers busy at the till.
Perhaps we should ask for fixed toys to play on at the tills (bead slides, buttons to press, little tvs) not confectionary at the tills!

Yes, wouldn't that be good?