ASD diagnosis - do they see what they want to see?

[debs40]

DS has a really good sense of humour. We are quite a sarcastic, piss-takey type of family (scousers you see!) and he always gets it.

I mentioned this to the ASD consultant on the phone the other and she said we should be careful to undestand when doing the ADOS that some of his skills are because of sensitive parenting and accomodation. But surely that didn't make him have a good sense of humour??

He can also be very empathic when you engage him. It's just hidden beneath the social skills problems!!

I think this mind-blindness stuff is a bit of a blunt way of describing something quite complex. What do you think?

I think again it can varies a lot from child to child, and like you say it's complex!

My DS has a sense of humour too, but atm it's based on visual stuff that he will find funny , verbal stuff go straight over his head but well he has speech delay and is only 4.3 so it's expected.
DS will sometimes go over to his little sister and give her a hug when she is crying a little, and he can 'pick up'when something is quite wrong with someone as he will ask "what's matter?" and when we explain he will just say "oh! ok!!" but he won't attempt to find out more or be very comforting.
So in comparison to my NT newphew of the same age, who brings pillows to his mum when she has a headache, stroke her head and looks very sorry for her.
DS has what i'd called 'limited empathy', it's definately there but it's not very developed if that makes sense!

I wonder if they feel it, but don't know how to express it. In the same way, they find it hard to ask for help, they find it hard to know what to do about emotions.

I can see DS can treat DS2 entirely without empathy sometimes as if he is not another human.

But then sometimes you can see he feels passionately about things he hears, tigers being hunted or people in an earthquake

Tis complex stuff.

After waiting all this time, now te drive seems to be get him dx'd with AS, I'm starting to think whoa, he's not that straightforward!!

Or do we just see a totally different picture at home??

It sounds like an up market way of saying the child has 'learned behaviour'. I would love to ask one of these people how I stop DS2 (NT) learning anything as it is clearly the wrong thing to do !

It varies so much between children IME.

Ds1 has quite a dry sense of humour and also loves jokes involving word play. I'm still not sure about empathy though. He might ask if someone was okay but more because it's what he's learned to do rather than because he's concerned IYSWIM.

Ds2 likes silly humour and visual humour. He loves cartoons like Tom & Jerry, Roadrunner etc. If he sees another child is upset he will go over to them to make sure they are okay. If he sees someone is hurt he will take them to see the school First Aider.

Both boys are somewhere on the spectrum.

Ah ah! I understand.

I suppose as well, they get to know us well and may not pick up the humour in other circumstances.

I still have my doubts about the mind-blindness stuff though - I can see what it's getting at and it feels like it's almost described it, but needs a bit more work!

I do think practice makes perfect Debs- ds1'sSOH is better than it should be IYKWIM but like you we are a piss takey uber sarcastic family (not scouse though, bridgwater- apaprenlty similar acocrding to BM's scouse DH)

obviously the asd willpalcelimits but exposure will helpthemndevelop what is there to the max, I reckon.

DS3'ssoh isn't so readily there- very much absed on peek a boo / visual stuff atm but even then,I think it has helped him being in this family.

Ipersonally (if we acceptthat I am undx'dAS) have an incredibly dry SOH but struggleto identify sarcasm etc in people I amnot familar with, a big issue forme I think.Also, becuase my SOH is so dry only those who know me get it really, those who know me well think I am quite funny apaprently,but someone I amfriendlyish with said she had learned to do a double take when I said things, to see if I have an evil glint in my eye (I usually do)

Mind blindness- goodness thats a hard concept isn't it? FWIW I can see it in myself,but only recently have started to be able to pick it apart,but its very hit and miss in its desription- it's far too general and whilst Imight use it to attribute behaviours to it,I wouldn't base my expectations on it, does that make sense? (probably not).

Yes, it does make sense peachy. And I know Bridgey well so understand what you mean!!

I suppose it is like the social communication side of things. They can learn to develop those skills with peeople they know/feel comfortable with but you can really see the problems when you have an appointment with someone new - it's like OMG how Aspie is DS!

The Early Bird Plus course got me thinking about it as they 'teach' mindblindness' as a core concept to the understanding of 'children with autism' but in a very blunt 'these children have no empathy' type way and I had to say.....er.....not as straightforward as that.

How did you get on with your essay??

Just through BIBIC or closer exposure?

Oh ans the essay- it takes them a month to mark it so no news yet (eeeek). I will let you know when I get a grade, hopefully soon.

Go for it starlight..

I was a criminal lawyer in another life and started my criminal career in a practice there - very busy, very funny clients!

Sorry that made me PMSL-really? you probably met a few of my homestart clients then

At least someone on SN knows what I talk about when I mention the boys in the carnivals anyway.

Carnival time blimey, oh, the bail conditions I got amended so people could attend carniival!! The times I put forward in mitigation that some child had noww joined a carnivall club so had gone on the straight and narrow!

My bestest anecdote is my mitigation for a local well-known 'likes a fight type of lad' which argued that he had now switched from 'natch' to normal lager......cue maggistrates nodding approvingly... and giving him another chance

Never needed to use that one in London... know your bench!

Debs, for some reason they don't use the tests to help understand a unique complex human being, instead they try to reduce the human being to the fashionable version of their test. Any attempt by you to describe said human being's complexity must be stamped on with an "yes but i know better" comment.

Only thing you can be sure of is that this test will be different in ten years' time.

btw, I ran the "theory of mind" deficit thingie past DH (historian and philosopher of science) and it didn't get past his laugh test. Apparently this idea of a theory of mind widget in your brain that aint working properly is considered soooo last decade among philosophers of mind......

Very interesting..is there any reading he would suggest on it?

Mrs Turnip is your woman for that Starlight.

Debs, will ask.

Starlight- know what you mean about the research,MrsT is indeed your lady but even now I am finding my essay topics and studies are veering from the ones the paid-fors are taking, and whilst they arevery set (presumably why they are there)about where to go,Iam far wider- want to do some study on carers if I can't do my SW conversion after the MA, not something most people there care about.

Am lucky to have that freedom,and expect next step will be a Birmingham correspondence to widen it up a bit.

Debs- PMSL.I grew up on one of the erm, hardest estates there and come from one of their famillies. I reckon I should get extra kudos for not being a crim / drunk / tracksuit bottomwearing work dodger, wotcha think?. (Actually its OK but carnival as a means of going straight? pmsl, have they never heard of wombling?)

Is that the Sedgmoor? There were whole families I used to represent there. Better not mention the names as you might know them!!

Endemic unemployment and a terrible drugs problem though. A very difficult start to life for a lot of children. I dealt with some very sad cases.

I lived by Docks,worked on hamp and Syndenham.And I bet you'd know my family name but thankfully not me- phew LOL!

Starlight i'vebeen getting peopletoproofread but thankfully so far it hasnt been ahrd to write separately IYSWIM- format doesnt allow for toomuch personal life thankfully.