Ds1 hits, shouts at, hurts ds2 'because he likes it'

[LargeLatte]

Ds1 (4yrs 7mo) at times when he is stressed, which can last weeks, hits, punches, spits at, kicks ds2 (2yrs 9mo). Ds1 not dx but anyone who spends more than an hour with him can see he is some level of ASD (excpet HV or Paed). If he's not physically hitting him he will shout, pull faces, and his favourite is to sing stupid hurtful bullying songs in ds2's face.

Nothing will make him stop. I've talked to him about it and he says he does it because he likes it. I believe this because he loves ds2 and plays with him, defends him, and can be kind towards him.

I have 2 theories - either that he likes the repetition - because he knows the exact pattern of events that will come out of that behaviour - or hearing ds2 cry is a type of stimulation he enjoys.

Any suggestions.

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Hi

My DS1 who is nearly 7 is massively irritated by his younger brother who is just turned 4.

It is very draining as, left alone, their play will usually turn to DS1 hitting or pushing or being plain mean to DS2.

DS1 almost certainly has Aspergers - yet to be dx'd.

I have done three things:

1. Started a sticker chart - I printed out a picture of a fave star wars character and wrote 1 to 10 on it. When he gets ten stickers, he gets to chose a star wars lego character off ebay! He will get a sticker every time he has a day without hitting DS2 (I'm tackling the physical stuff first!)

1. I have told DS1 that I understand that younger brothers can be very unsettling and irritating but that he can ask to play by himself whenever he wants

1. We have a doe word 'alien' for DS1 to shout in any situation where he is finding himself getting angry at DS2. He doesn't have to explain himself, I will just come and help

I think DS1 just finds DS2 too unpredictable and chaotic. He likes his world ordered and quiet. DS2 is loud and in your face.

If he does hit DS2, I try not to shout or get angry. I separate them. Concentrate on ensuring DS2 is ok, and then speak quietly and clearly to DS1. 'We don't hit because it hurts' etc

When they get angry, they don't take much in, so you need to calm things first and then give clear directions.

Praise for not hitting is also important. DS1 will get down on himself for not being able to control his temper so encouragement is important while being very clear about how unacceptable it is to hit etc.

I take this track because my personal view is that helping them manage emotions is the key to solving this. I'm not sure consequences and punishments work

Debs we have similar isues in our house with DS1 being very intolerant and often mean to his younger brothers..

I too have decided that punishment and consequences don't work for DS1, he is at his worst when bored and starting a big fight with him gives him some excitement, so i concentrate on calming him down so that he can learn something from the episode. I ignore his shouting and reply in short neutral phrases but let him stay in the room, I also attend to the needs of the victim but I don't shun DS1 when he has calmed down, if I do something with him afterwards we often have a very constructive chat.

I have also now got DS2&3 onside helping me to secretly "Train" DS1 by not reacting when he gets in their face. He rants and raves for a while but calms down faster and usually admits he was wrong in the end (which he never does when "punished".

I try hard to notice when DS1 is being restrained (the dinner table is a big trigger) but he gets very embarrassed being praised!

It is hard to be 100% consistent but worth it.

My family think I am being a pushover and it has caused some friction but I really think it is helping and I feel a lot calmer too.

Wiggly, I agree 100% with you. It can be hard and I can see, when we are out, or in front of people, and DS1 goes for DS2 that others look at me and judge my calm, non-shouty (well, most of the time!)reaction. I know that it must look like I am too soft. But they don't have my son or lead my life so they can get lost! I can see that calming DS1 down is the key to it all.

It has also taken some time to persuade DH not to jump into reprimand mode so quickly because it is your natural reaction to do so.

I think trying to find ways to help them to manage their responses is the key. It's not easy but it is the only way.

Great advice Debs. Ds isnt usually aggressive (but he only has older brothers).

Although when his older brothers argue or fight, he gets extremely over excited, he reminds me of a little chimp, he screeches and runs around and seems to enjoy it. Definitely something to do with the chaos causing stimulation in his case. Other than that he rarely shows emotion!

Largelatte, all the hitting, punching, kicking, pushing etc could also be a sensory seeking thing, especially if he is expressing he likes it.

Ds used to do lots of jumping, crashing into objects and trying to initiate rough play with his older brothers.

He now has an exercise plan from OT and also from bibic and it is helping to lessen this kind of behaviour.

I have a 6 year old with asd, who is aggressive towards everyone. He hits and pushes his brpthers who also have asd. I have made a sort calm down corners in the sitting room, consisting of a beanbag and book/ipod/whatever each child likes. They each know when to go to their calm down corners, and seems to work.
It gives me a bit of breathing space too.

6 year old also has a weighted blanket which helps him to calm down

claw3 I think your totally right that it is a sensory thing. He loves it when ds2 shreiks and really giggles - even if he did not cause the upset. Also he loves the physical rough and tumble. By accident had a breakthrough on Friday. ds2 crying after coming in from cold- ds1 started smashing himself into sofa, pretending to knock himself out to make ds2 giggle. Worked a treat.So trying to fit in a bit of supervised rough and tumble to fulfill that need then direct him to play alone upstairs so I can get stuff done without ds2 getting clobbered.

Not sure who mentioned it but really like idea of a 'safe word' ds1 can use when ds2 is overwhelming him. We have a similar system already for when he can't cope with conversation / questions so he should pick it up easily.

Would love HV to see how many measures I know have in place to help ds1 and rest of family cope with normal life, and then have her tell me he is NT because he has mastered imaginative play ahhhhhhh!!!

Morning Largelatte, controlled rough and tumble with an adult is one of the things in ds's excerise program. Trampolines are brilliant if you have room. Being rolled up in a quilt and having pressure applied is ds's favourite.

Im not sure what they class as imaginative play anymore, ds has a whole family of 'imaginary friends' who he plays with, he can pretend an object is something else ie a lego brick is a train, a recorder is a sword etc and they say his imaginative play is limited!

That is imaginative play! Ds1 and ds2 love to roll themselves up in my new rug - which has been making me cross - but maybe I can use to my advantage. Have also got them both spinning chairs from Ikea which provide hours of pleasure.

got home from school an hour ago and we've had a cuddle, some spinning and dinner - so far so good.Just got to remember to stay on top of my game and I know he'llbe fine. Thanks for the advice.