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SN children

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Original poster

toileting and asd

21 replies

nikos · 22/12/2009 14:04

We toilet trained ds with asd in the summer and he quickly got the hang of wees (he was 4). He has been at school full time since September and has only had one weeing accident in that time and is dry during the night.
but poos are taking much longer to get the hang of and we re now suspecting that the success he has had with poos has kind of happened when he was doing a wee anyway.

Because now he just will mess his pants and not care. He will sit in the poo and only when one of us notices does he get changed. He would quite happily sit for hours in it with no qualms. BUT he has only had one poo accident at school (and he used to always do a daytime poo before starting school) which implies that he has some control.
I'm really unsure where to go with this now. Am sick of changing him (it's an awful job as many of you will know) but don't want to get 'hard' on him if he is finding it impossible to feel.
Anyone any words of encouragement?

OP posts:

cyberseraphim · 22/12/2009 14:43

We had/(have in case tempting fate) this issue for a long long time - getting better now though. No real answer though but time and perseverance - having help from school too.

Original poster

nikos · 22/12/2009 15:02

Thanks cyber - did your ds not care that he was sitting in it as well. It's as if he doesn't even feel it coming out.

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cyberseraphim · 22/12/2009 15:03

Yes he did care - was desperate to rush to clean up as he is terrified of any kind of mess - but still took a long time to make the connection about what to do - about 80% there now

IDontLikeDisciples · 22/12/2009 15:03

Do you have the option of continence clinic?

We were offered this even before formal DX and our (male) nurse has been wonderful with DS.

Original poster

nikos · 22/12/2009 15:22

Is that through the GP disciples? Willing to take any advice I can get as at a loss to know how to help him. I do wonder if he has some problems with muscle control and therefore feeling it coming out.

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IDontLikeDisciples · 22/12/2009 15:30

Our communication clinic referred him. But it's worth asking our GP?

He is working with DS at the moment about recognising how unpleasant it is to be unclean - he uses some funny methods but it works - he's a star.

Original poster

nikos · 22/12/2009 15:38

Did your ds have a problem with feeling it being bothered by it as well?

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IDontLikeDisciples · 22/12/2009 15:45

Oh yes - from even a small baby he never has let us know when he's dirty. He'd happily play even if it was smeared down his legs.

He's in pullups now and sometimes pants at home - he's just 5.

If you have any questions about continence clinic please ask.

Original poster

nikos · 22/12/2009 15:58

We've got ds in pants - have done since the summer. It makes cleaning him a nightmare but he is so good with wees that I don't want to go back to pullups. He's at mainstream school in recpetion and coping very well with a full time Teaching Assistant. But want to knock this on the head before children start to tease him about it.
He has only had one accident at school which kind of implies he has some control over it.

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CardyMow · 22/12/2009 20:18

GAH! my DD was 6.1 before she was poo free at school, and even now at 11yo, she is still having regular wee accidents. No enuresis clinic in our area. My DS2 was clean and dry at 4.5, but it was a long process of constantly sitting on the loo every half hour. My DS1(NT) was clean and dry by 18 months.

Novacane · 22/12/2009 22:31

I know where you are coming from, I would just like to say 'hang in there'. We have had exactly the samw experience as you... wee trained at 4.5 (just before starting reception), but poo's have taken a lot longer to come. lots of accidents at school, wees and poos- we had help from the children's diability nurse, but everything we tried was just not working....we were facing year 1 with him still being un poo trained... and it just clicker with him.. one day he just started going and has never had an accident since (apart from when he was poorly).... Just want to say, hang on in there, dont go back to nappies(my DP wanted to at one point, he didnt think he would ever train and wanted to 'give up'),my DS knew exaclty what to do but was just un interested- whatever he was doing at the time was more important!
Cant say what we did to make him go on the toilet, but it was just in time as we were really getting past oursleves with changing poo pants, cleaning legs, etc
Keep going x

Original poster

nikos · 23/12/2009 08:55

Novacane - thanks so much for your message. It is very encouraging. He took to the wees so readily and even went very quicly to dry at night (and going to the toilet when he gets up in the morning). So I do know in my heart of hearts that he will crack this eventually.
But as you say the poo cleaning is awful. But it is encouraging to hear of your ds progress.

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notfromaroundhere · 23/12/2009 09:54

We've had poo nightmares with DS1. Like your DS he trained for wees very quickly (including over night) but poos were another story. Unfortunately he got into the habit of holding his poo so we've ended up having to get him medication (Movicol). His bowel got stretched from the withholding so he then wasn't getting the signal. We pretty much left him pant-free at home as this seemed to help. Now many months later he seems to recognise the need (unless he gets constipated and then it all goes to hell).

I symapthise with the poo cleaning, my DS2 is reading for toilet training but I have been putting it off as I just can't face clearing up poo pants atm.

notfromaroundhere · 23/12/2009 09:56

Also wanted to add, DS1's SALT gave me advice on how to put together a Social Story - may be worth a try

Novacane · 28/12/2009 21:38

Hey, sorry not replied earlier, been on jollibobs to London for a few days.

Wees were sorted overnight instantly with Miniova too- he only has the very very occasional accident overnight, when his bladder must be really full. we don't even tend to make him go to the loo before bed, we haven't needed to.

The disability nurse wanted to rule out constipation with movicol, esp as his diet was limited- but I just knew he wasn't constipated. Movicol would have made him even worse IMO, there would have been a danger he wouldn't have been able to control himself at school etc.

As I have have said, we have just bee away for a few days and he even went in the hotel loo, which I was worried about. His behaviour and running about/ticks are another thread completely though....

Social stories are always a good idea, very positive...

Let me know how it goes!

sphil · 28/12/2009 23:45

Very similar story here. DS2(7) has been wee-trained for nearly a year and is reliable about 50% of the time at night after about 8 weeks of no night nappy. We have gone through various stages with poo in that time.
At first he would go in his pants and then attempt to clean himself with his hands. Now he never goes in his pants during the day, but always after bedtime, in his pjs (he waits until we're not around) and then puts it down the loo with his hands. He then attempts to clean his hands himself. We see this as progress, of sorts, but he still doesn't get the connection between sitting on the loo and doing a poo - I guess it's from so many years of seeing his poos being put down the toilet by us?

I have finally found a picture symbol of some poo coming out of a bottom and am going to do a simple picture story for him after Christmas hols. If anyone has any good ideas, I be grateful (sorry for hijack)

Marne · 29/12/2009 12:54

Dd2 did a poo (a very tiny bunny poo) in the potty last week, she was pleased with herself but nothing since , we seem to be having more problems with wee's, i can tell when she needs a poo so i can take her to the potty/loo but i can't work out when she needs a wee and i dont think she knows that she needs to wee but knows when she has been.

Sphil- it sounds like you ds is doing really well.

sphil · 29/12/2009 13:01

When you look at the whole toileting issue as a whole, he's done fantastically - this time last year he was in nappies day and night - I just wish he could sit and poo!

cyberseraphim · 29/12/2009 15:59

I know it's been suggested before but knowing the time (roughly) is a great advantage. Could you keep him in a long shirt (but nothing else) and keep him near the bathroom - then rush when the time is right ?

Heqet · 29/12/2009 16:06

ds1 is 10 and still soils himself. The doctors insist it is psychological but I don't believe that. He is embarrassed and hides his pants! I give him lactalose which seems to help a bit.

sphil · 29/12/2009 23:57

He gets very upset if we don't put pj bottoms on him - just keeps asking for 'trousers' over and over again and will turn his drawers upside down looking for some to put on. We've tried sitting outside his room in an attempt to catch him going and only stopped just before Christmas when we were just too busy to do it - intending to start again next week. I think it's the only way - once we get him to make the connection it'll all click, I'm sure (well, fairly sure...) He's SO good at hiding when he's going though - the only outward sign is going quiet.

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