ASD and "lies" ??? DS has started lying!

[mysonben]

I'm a bit at this totally new behaviour from DS (4).
Very recently (the past week or so), whenever he hears us say "who has done/touched that?" he says straight away "Amy!" (20 months old dd).
Today, she was having her nap, and DS was eating a yogurt while watching tv, he dropped a bit on the floor. I only had to sighed loudly (as it happens all the time!) and he said "it Amy!"
I saw him do it, she was not even in the room and he still tried to blame his sister.

I don't know what to think of his newly found way of lying (he has never done that before!). Ok it's not totally inventing a great big lie as he can't speak that well, but nevertheless he blames her for stuff he did.

I thought that young asd children didn't tell lies to try to cover themselves. ???
But that is exactly what DS is systematically doing atm.

Could this mean that DS may...not have asd afterall? for saying this.
Any experience of this with your asd dc?

Thank you.

ASD children are not very good at telling lies. It's not true that they don't tell lies at all.

My son tells lies all the time. He is the king of lie telling. He also has a bloody brilliant imagination. He's had a verbal dx of aspergers by 2 different paediatricians, his teacher (also the senco) thinks he has as too....

Thanks Corny, for your reply.
Well i suppose that i should give him a bit of credit for the lying..., DS has 'mild asd', and i should maybe consider the fact that he isn't actually very good at it as he does it even when it is so plainly obvious that he did the deed, iyswim!
There was an occasion where he blamed her when she was out with DH and i saw him do the deed and he saw that i saw him if that makes anysense!

Thanks Othermother, for your reply too.

Does your DS lies simply to invent weird and wonderful stories or does he lies to cover his bum when he is in the wrong?
How old is he?
Thanks.

I'd be pleased, its completely typical behaviour for a 4 year old - my 5 and 7 year olds are still doing it! Presently they lie about who went to the loo last and didn't flush it - even when I know who it was. After your posts about LD I'd take it as a good sign.

He's 6 (his birthday yesterday actually...and like last year he spent his whole birthday throwing up)... he tells lies to cover up things he's done and blames his sister for things, but he also invents huge stories too...

Thanks Grumpyoldeyeore, i am taking as a good sign indeed, even to the point that because of it, i am back on the rollercoaster of 'has he got asd? has he not?'
I know NT children can lie through their teeth whenever given the chance , but i was unsure whether young children with ASD could lie as does my DS atm, iyswim.

Othermother, i see so it's both kind of lies with your DS.
Cheers for answering.

Yuo, 'fraid so. He does a great line in "when he was alive 365 years ago" but is also good at "Eliza broke it" too.

lol...

My DS is constantly blaming DD for stuff too! When I say "who left the bathroom light on?" Both will shout the name of the other one He can blame others but cant construct a 'complicated' lie yet if that makes sense.

I'd take it as avery good sign..very age appropriate behaviour:D I rem my NT kids doing just that..they used to blame everything on my youngest (ASD/MLD) son because he couldn't speak :D

My son is 12 now..and verbal, but he has no ability to lie..he can only say it how it is. Makes keeping secrets(like presents if he has been out with me shopping) impossible so it's not all good!

thanks for all replies.
It would seem from your varied answers that some of your dc with asd can lie and others don't.
I suppose maybe the 'level of fonctioning' (i don't like that term but can't think of a another way of putting it) has someting to do with it.
I am aware that lying at age 4 or later, is a typical behaviour in NT children.
Was unsure whether asd children could do it too...hence the original post.

DS2 (4) blames his younger brother for a lot of stuff as well MSB, even if he is holding the evidence in his hands! Thats more or less the only "lie" he will tell.

There are certain lies they aren't good at, can't remember for the life of me which ones, but I'm sure someone else will.

I agree it's a good sign.

If he had realised that the lie would not work whilst Amy had an alibi, then I really would be thinking "how can this child have any problem with theory of mind?". But it doesn't sound as though he's figured that out yet (cute).

We are still very confused about other people's intentions here. DS2 (4) doesn't understand the concept of an "accident" ie another child struck him but didn't mean too. I think this is normal development but just very delayed. A peer of his said to his mum the other night "I didn't know Lingle's DS2 could do that!" and I thought "blimey, I didn't know 4-year-olds were supposed to be able to think things like that!"

My sister who is 53 and has AS, is an inveterate liar, she can hardly tell fact from fiction sometimes! She was nicknamed Supergrass when we were growing up as she couldn't keep a secret.... but she does seem to re-edit the truth or tell it as if it happened to her when it didn't rather than make things up from scratch. She can't tell what is appropriate at all and will tell a story that is fantastic but possibly a bit offensive or really odd and have no idea that other people will think its strange.
A friend's DS, who also has AS, used to have a whole carefully constructed alternative universe, full of detail and with its own language!

I remember the first time mine told a lie - not so long ago really. I was chuffed to bits! Told everyone about it!. Sadly it doesn't mean they're not autistic. my eldest tells me things like "a ghost did it".

So they're not very good at it...

DS1 just believes whatever comes into his head. It's very hard to convince him he's wrong, so he's a pretty good liar. The difference between him and an older NT kid is that his "lies" aren't intended to manipulate - he believes in them wholeheartedly.

All your replies give me a clearer idea of 'lies' and asd.

Only a couple of days ago, DS was sitting at the table (dd was playing with her bricks across the room) with a pencil in his hand and i noticed that whilst i had my back turned for a minute he had scribbled all over the front of my notebook, nothing dramatic but i said 'you musn't scribble on mummy's things!' i'd barely finished when he said 'it Amy' ...
I said 'no don't lie, Amy is sitting over there,...' and he started crying repeating dd did it! he definately doesn't fully grasp the whole concept of his lie.

Dd1 started telling lies at 4 years old, i was and a little excited as i thought children on the spectrum didn't lie. She still expects every one else to tell the truth though and believes every thing she hears at school.

Oh Marne, Tom is just like that!..he expects everyone else to tell the truth/ obey rules etc, but thinks they don't apply to him. Strange.