Is this just like Asperger's????????????

[Solo2]

I posted a while ago here about one of my 8 twins, who I described as 'lightly touched with Asperger's'. Some of his traits are becoming more prominent within the context of his 8 to 9 yr old peers and twin brother. Three early assessments concluded he DIDN'T merit a full diagnosis but could that be because a lot of it's based on mum answering auestions and so is v subjective - ie, I was - and sort of still am - terrified of him getting a diagnosis.

If you're still reading this and have a son around this age with Asperger's, does this following description sound familiar? Here we go:

Talks to/ 'lectures' friends but does far less proper dialoguing; doesn't 'get' peer humour but has a great sense of humour about his own jokes; still makes little eye contact; has various obsessive interests in aspects of things most people would find boring or weird, eg. makes endless lists on PC of made-up children's names and teachers of a fictitious school, endless lists on PC of names of geographical districts of a fictitious city; watches repeat episodes of children's TV again and again so he knows almost all of it verbatim; anxious fixation on obsessive fears - currently tornadoes and the Yeti - both absorbed by facts about them and frightened of them; regularly breaks into a conversation between me and his twin with something completely unrelated, even if there are emotional cues there to stay ON topic (eg if twin upset about something and angaged in conversation with me about it...

There are loads more...eg is becoming aware that "I don't have emotions like you two do, Mummy" when other DS and I are caught up in the emotions of a movie and in tears/ touched, whilst other one sits and is untouched and incomprehending or just laughs inappropriately...Can't play boxed games as he either doesn't 'get' the rules or can't cope at all with losing....Makes jokes but takes it too far, slipping from appropriate to rude/ hurtful/ insensitive/ over-the-top and doesn't know when to stop....Doesn't make new friends - like his twin regularly does - but sticks to 3 friends all of whom are also 'quirky' and one of whom has Asperger's (plus genius level Maths ability)

Can someone tell me, from their own experience, if there are any things above that would rule out Asperger's or on the contrary, seem to make a diagnosis v clear?

He is more and more not quite like the majority of his peers but because of the type of school he goes to (academically selective), not quite completely unusual and has some peers who have got an Asperger's (high functioning) diagnosis....

I'm finding it really hard as he has never completely conformed to a diagnosis and yet from the start was so NOT like his twin and so quirky and unusual and eccentric compared with his peers. His twin is equally bright but doesn't have any of those quirky traits. So it's not because he's a just an eccentric 'genius'. He's not at all gifted at Maths/ Science/ Music as many of his gifted peers are - with and without Asperger's.

Could someone also recommend from really good books, even very academic one, on people with high functioning Asperger's. I want to know what to expect as the years go by and how to help him to go out into the world and be independent oneday.

Thank you.

Hello

IOt takes a proper diagnostician torule in or out a dx of AS but there's alot in your post which would make me think a realassessment is warranted, yes. Much of it rings true of my ds1 (who is just 10).

what sort of test are you looking for?I liked this as a start up text but there are many others out there allwith different angles on. if you could explain what you were after I might be able to suggest a few?

May be worth starting with the NAS website though, they have info sheets on them that can be downloaded and are a great entry level source also.

How to cope with HFA.... ah yes. Well,it's fairly recognised that I have AS (technically, HFA and AS differ- AS is people who had no language delay, though many get a DX of ASD these days for both). I'dsay it differes immensely depending on the inate eprson ality of the person, my two witha sd have incredibly different needs and personalities within their DX, one is aggresssive and competitive, the other happy and settled.

For myself,I think socialskills help would have been immense (look at social stories-plenty of stuff on Amazon) and bits about relationships, that sort ofthing. But in all truth I think its a play it by ear thing, find ut where yur child struggles. He has friends which is excellent but is struggling with empathy by the sounds of it so i wouild start with that, thiswas quite a goodtect but may be a bit lyoung, or there'splenty of other books in a similar vein on Amazon.

Thank you. VirginPeachy... This is very helpful to me. I've ordered some books off amazon, including the one you recommended and will see what they offer.

Is it possible to teach social skills without this feeling artificial to the child?

DS had some speech therapy a couple of yrs ago and we were supposed to practice 'dialoguing' between sessions, where I introduced a topic and he had to stay on-topic. We both found it either frustratingly boring or just too crass to go through with it.

Are there specific resources available to help soical skills for children his age, do you know? Maybe in the book I've ordered...

Thank you again.

Most people focus on social stotries becuase they are easy and very accessible to the child on the basis that the best ones are designed to fit in with their interests etc.

Other techniques include circle of friends (DS1 benefits a lot from this, basically a group of children is selected in negotiation with child aprents and teacher (their pa)rents are asked, I think only one refused with us) and they meet eiter weekly or fortnightly with child and they cchat about circumstances they found ahrd, give feedback on playgroun behaviour etc

The other one I guess is modelling: th more out there in a supported way the better within their tolerance levels.

Chatting through things is basic but important, but also if they are like ds1 and read and prefer to think things through alone,maybe supply a range of books and similar. DS1 ahs everything from joke books (jokes are sovery important to Junior aged boys, and if you can't work threm out then memorise them!) to books about conflict resolution etc. I find they're quite easy to find on a decent search engine, and of course libraries can get them also.

Thanks. That's very helpful. One thing he does a lot, which is becoming more and more noticeable is to talk about something going on inside his head that is completely unrelated to anything we're talking about, any context we're in and anything he's just said a few moments ago and what he then says can also sound v weird, like he's in the middle of a long conversation with himself about it and then says a tiny part of it.

He did this as a v young child, eg the second he woke up, he'd say something about a toy vehicle, unrelated to anything going on at all. But now, it's more noticeable because it's less appropriate in a nearly 9 yr old.

Should I call him on this and help him realise he's changed the subject and we don't know the context of what he's talking about - or will this just make him self-conscious?

Ignore Caz, she probably knows stuff but sadly thinks this is an advertising space

That unrelated thing conversation is totally classic Solo, you might mention it to him and raise his awareness when he does it but his thought processes willwork differnetly and its mroe a matter of helping him ID when he does it than anything else

I'm not able to help any more than the others have already, but I wanted to say that I love "lightly touched with", it sounds much better than the "mild" I tend to go with.

Thanks, VirginPeachy...I'm not sure what to be thinking and feeling right now...I suppose my greatest fears are for him when he's much much older and oneday, when I'm not here anymore....Will he ever have a relationship? Will he have lasting friendships?....On the other hand, I'm such an eccentric myself - but not really in the same way he is - that maybe I'm a good model for him to see you can be contented and not fit 'the norm' (eg I've not been in a relationship for 17 yrs and the children are donor conceived...I don't have time for a social life but also love best to be alone, pursuing creative interests - though it's nearly 9 yrs since I had time for all that!)...

Also, what I'm wondering right now is - how much of his quirks are Asperger's and how much are personality and how do you tell the difference between the two? My late father was v v good socially and yet did have a tendency to misjudge what was appropriate at times and preferred a context in which he was in charge, rather than an equal peer...Is that personality or something else?

My older sister was OTT as a child with hysterical moods, hated to be touched, moody, didn't like eye contact...but is not like someone with Asps in many other ways...though I wonder about her...

I love love love being alone but also have pretty good social skills and am good at tuning in to other people's feelings and moods....but I enjoyed living in a fantasy world a lot, as a child....though it was more kind of the usual inner world than DS is...

Do you know any books written about differentiating between Asps and personality traits?

I don't think you can differentiate

AS is what fits the AS criteria (googleDSM and ICD-10), but its part of a person and a person is far more complex and will ahve their own traits that, in that awful phrase, they 'bring to the party'.The mix is the person, IYSWIM?

But its not worth separating the twobecuase you ahve to dealwith the peson (Sorry,I confess to being a bit Gestalt on all this- the whole is greater than the sum of the parts etc)

That can addto complexity, but equally it gives cluesas to how to help, what to focus on. They can DX the Asperger's, but we have to work with the person.

Rather than work out which bits are AS, work out what needs working on, what is liveable with and what is fine in the context of who he is. Don't even think about the middle tier 9andcertainly lower) until you've worked how to deal with the first level.

Chances are he can have a relationship if he wants (never any guaranteesfor anyone is tehre?) but he might approach it differntly or be attracted to different people. His life will lead him into contact with all sorts- same as the rest of us.

Hi Solo2 - just wanted to say that I recognise a lot of what you say in my DS1 and I started a similar topic yesterday.

All the best.

My sister's boyfriend mutters about writing a book for partners of AS people, a sort of survival/how to manual (In a nice way obv)

Your DS will just need to find the right person, one who knows and loves him and his AS ways

Flame give him my email in about six months,we'llcolaborate after I finish my first eyar

(DHG would wish to contribute lots though, the first part would be 'get very good at cleaning,and never ever be late without arning them, it'snever worth it )

Truth is,relationships can be a battlefor peoplewith As but a great many people do find their partner,and indeed someone with AS can make an excellent partner for someone who can live with a few quirks- constant, faithful, trustworthy- allgood AS characteristics that can be hard to find. DH ahs a lot oftraits (but isn't AS,just AS-a-like) which both helps and provides fodder for arguments- he does the obsessive bit with merits- but chances are he will find someone.

Indeed, ds1,despite a lot of issues that would class him as 'severeAS' has no shortage of girls after him; he is quite handome (blode curls and blue eyes) but they seem tolike the strong silent type that he is (I suspect they'll go off the guinea pig langauge rapidly though as he's now ten)