Ed Psych now changed her mind

[lou031205]

After finding out there are no local nurture and assessment units, ed psych has decided that our 'small village infant school' would do exactly the same thing, and DD nolonger needs a N&A place.

She still thinks DD is too bright for a MLD school.

I said I was worried about LA coming back with few hours on statement (need full 1:1) and she said that schools often top them up, and if DD needs full 1:1 she will get it, whether or not the statement says so, because schools have to provide what children need

LOL, - you know this is funny right?

Sorry to laugh.

And sorry this has happened.

lou where are you now in the statementing process?

Your Ed Pysch sounds like a complete tosser!

She is talking utter rubbish - but the words were probably written for her by her 'masters' - the LEA.

Have you checked out the schools? We have a lot of village schools near us with small class sizes but have been told (unofficially) to avoid most of them as they don't have the experience of SEN and don't get as big a budget - they may well not be able to put in FT 1:1 out of their own budget without some difficulty - much easier for a big school. The best school for ASD here is the school in the rough end of town who have seen it all, have children who speak 50 different languages and get extra £££ due to deprivation index (it also has the local pupil referral unit on site). SEN funding is done on deprivation so if school is in a leafy village its budget is going to be minimal.

The other thing I would worry about is whether there are sufficient peers for DS (ASD) to practice on before he succeeds in making friends - in very small classes (and with the mums in the playground) it can be a one chance saloon and he might need a number of attempts before achieving success.

Sorry to be negative but I think the idea of a village school and the reality can be quite different. As with anything though it depends on the quality of the staff and their attitude.

We have been looking at MLD school for DS (just 3) - he might well be too bright for the upper school - but we still think he would benefit from the specialised teaching in nursery class up to age 5-6 and then transfer to mainstream if needed. At the moment for DS its the staff and their ability to move him on which is more important than the abilities of his peers, who he doesn't notice anyway. The school have a really good reputation for taking ASD children at 3 or 4 who are bright (but have a MLD due to language delay) and getting them up to speed by age 5-6.

Make sure you go and look for yourself - we were given the he's too bright argument but turned out they had had children who were much brighter (reading at 3 etc) and they had the time to really get the best out of these children (staff ratio 4:10). We are still trying to get a statement so no chance getting him in - doing ABA now while the process goes on and on .... Don't ignore the MLD option - they might just be telling you its not suitable because its more expensive.

"....she said that schools often top them up, and if DD needs full 1:1 she will get it, whether or not the statement says so, because schools have to provide what children need".

This is the bit that is so illogical.

LEA assess for a Statement - if that Statement says he does not need full-time 1:1 then why should school fund 1:1 if he doesn't need it.

If he does need school to fund 1:1 full time then the need for 1:1 full-time 1:1 should be explicit in the Statement.

Without that the school can reduce the amount of 1:1 to that which is stated in the Statement.

Simples!

I don't know why we all get our knickers ina twist about what school can / cannot fund - who cares?

What is important is that the Statement does adequately specify the amount of help that is required. Then it's up yo school / LEA etc to sort out funding - NOT OUR PROBLEM!

Lou

Do consider speaking to IPSEA about this as well, at the very least get independent advice from such an organisation.

Your EP is talking out of her behind and the sad thing too is that she knows it. Their employers/lords and masters i.e the LEA put these people under immense pressure not to statement or to even advise parents properly.

Why does the EP now feel your DD does not need a N & A place and how on god's earth would a village school do exactly the same thing?. I would have luaghed at the woman but it is truly not a laughing matter.
My guess is that it is all down to cost i.e its too expensive for her to go to a MLD school so this is what you've been offered instead.

"Small village infant school" sounds like a nightmare from hell actually. It all sounds very nice but the reality can be very different indeed.

Re the comment made by WetAugust:-

"What is important is that the Statement does adequately specify the amount of help that is required. Then it's up yo school / LEA etc to sort out funding - NOT OUR PROBLEM"

That is the heart of the matter really.

Thanks guys

Star - we are at the stage where all reports are in (I hope, they were due in 25th Nov) and waiting for decision whether to issue statement or note in lieu.

The story goes:

-Ed psych visits, says she knows what she feels DD needs, but is new to the area, so needs to find out where these places are (N&A unit)

-I hear nothing, so contact her. She has been unable to find out, but it makes no difference to her recommendation in report, apparently (report is meant to be coming to me for approval before submission, but doesn't).

-Yesterday she phoned to say that she got really busy, so only just scraped deadline & had to submit. Copy of (already submitted) report is in post to me.

She had spoken to SEN service regarding provision. I live in a small village almost equidistant from 4 major towns/cities. One of these is regarded 'my' area, although once you have traveled far enough to reach a major town/city (10 miles +) it makes no difference which one you travel to.

'My' area has no Nurture & Assessment units. Nearest one is in town 1, but because unit 1 only takes 10 pupils in total, there would be no chance of getting in from our area.

Designated MLD school is unsuitable in her opinion. There is a complex needs school in one of the near cities, but we are out of area and children in area struggle to get a place.

So, given no N&A, and distance from SS and the fact that it is MLD, she feels local infant school (2 class entry, years R-2, currently 132 pupils) would be best 'with support'.

Have to say that if people want a 'nice' school, they choose 1 of 2 outstanding primaries in the next villages (all of our friends' children go to the school in next village, but we ruled it out by the attitude of head teacher )

Our local school is a 'good' school, but not one that people would choose because of 'class'.

I suppose I need to read the report and go from there. Surely it doesn't matter if she is actually quite intelligent, if her dev. delays and SPD prevent her from accessing her environment to learn from?

It all sounds vague - Can she tell you in concrete terms what the N&A unit would have done for your DD - What the MLD school can't do (and why not) and why it can be done at Mainstream? The MLD school I visited had some children who were very able with a lot of normal language and interaction - though in our case, we felt provision there for ASD children was poor.

agree with cyber, ed psych sounds terribly vague. think you will have to do some of your own spade work to find out what specialist placements exist and phone these up and get a feel for how suitable they would be for your DD, rather than just take ed psych word for it.

don't be put off your local school just on "class" grounds - sometimes for want of a better word, "rougher" schools can have a rather more decent attitude towards SN, more committed staff etc.

Ed psch should be looking at what your dd NEEDS not what provision there is - fool!

Blimey Lou. What a muddle. You must be out of your mind trying to second guess what the truth is, what to fight for and what direction to take.

I wouldn't turn down the local school on terms of 'class' but it does rather appear that your dd is being 'dumped' there as the easiest solution, rather than because it will meet her needs.

It is hard to know what I would do in your situation, but there are three potential strategies.

1. Determine what the most expensive provision will be and then tell them that is what you want, threaten a tribunal and then use that as leverage to negotiate something better than you are being offered.

2. Put her into the MLD for the 'early intervention'. After having been there for a little while, if she is 'too bright' she'll get turfed out, but with accompanying support. You don't have to fight for support at an MLD like you do at a MS, so you kind of set a president. When she moves into mainstream, all her support (that you never had to fight for) should go with her.

3. Write to your EP stating quoting the many conversations you have had about the n and a units being the most appropiate provision and state that you child should attend a placement according to her needs and if the area can't provide a place in-house, you expect them to do it externally.

No.2 is potentially less risky. It sounds like a headache and I'm really sorry.

Hi lou, we have had the same with dd2 (ASD), the ed psch says she is too bright for the local sn school and has advised us to put her in to MS. I said 'yes, as long as she has full 1:1 support', ed psch agreed and said he will make sure she has full 1:1 support. When i asked if she needed a statement he said 'no, the school will provide 1:1 and as its a small village school they should have plenty of funds to do this' .

The next day i went and spoke to the head of the school and was told that they have limited funds and rarely give full 1:1 support but it is possible, they also told me that LEA don't like too many statemented children in 1 school and they will advise not to get a statement. The school told me its my choice if i get dd2 statemented. It felt as though the school would prefer her to be statemented but could not say 'yes get a statement'.

I am now worried sick as i have not started the statementing process for dd2 and i am running out of time as apparently it takes 6+ months.

If dd2 does not get 1:1 support from day one next September i shall keep her at home until she is statemented and can have full 1:1 support.

Marne - you must start it. Today. Write the letter & post it. The clock will start ticking. Statement will be finalised in June. There is time, but only just, so don't wait.

Ed psych can only make recommendations. Without a statement, your DD's school could give her any or no support.

I think I will view the MLD schools. Wait for ed psych report. Look at proposed statement in Jan, then fight from there.

There are great Ed Psychs out there, I met one once.sadly the ones my boys have met have been erm,less handy.

The lady who said ds3 was clewarly NT and we shouldn't even get him assessed (..... until the date of her retirement funnily enopugh).... he was a non verbal school nursery kid in nappies.

Or the bloke who advised we just lock ds1 up at night, and who was'moved on' shortly after.

Or the one who said she had seen no signs of aggression in ds1 an drefused to turn and look out the window where ds1 was beating two barrels out of some infants kid.

Nuff said.

Marne

Sounds like alot of what we had TBH, and your area is fairly similar to here.

The school is incredibly short of cash due to a falling role soc an't afford to top up, very few schools can and those that can tend to be in that position becuase they don't pay for top ups, IYSWIM.

We wereadvised not to go for a statement but could if we wanted etc.... and in fact got one fairly easily after some wriggling, but the school didn't want too many SN kids showing on the reports, and neither did LEA want the cost. get in now, it will get worse with the way funding is going.

Get ye a statement! Tis the only way of guaranteeing anything. The rest is all empty promises that may or may not come into fruition

Ed psych's report is in. Don't know whether it is good, bad or indifferent

Just adding my ha'pennorth that "small village infant school" can work, though in our case, it's smallish village primary (3-11) school with about 135 pupils. Both my boys are getting full time support (all 1:1 for DS2, mostly 1:1 for DS1), even though the LEA wouldn't award full time and they are bending over backwards to try and work through the problems DS1 is having with coping with the classroom environment and the demands of year 1.

I think the deprivation index mentioned upthread does help, though - the school routinely takes in a high proportion of kids from socially deprived backgrounds with very poor language skills. Some people here take marginally better care of their horses and pigeons than they do their kids.

Lou if you look at Code of Practice (part dealing with assessments) the reports MUST NOT mention a specific school or placement it is for the PARENTS to decide which school to nominate. Star is right EP should be writing a report about needs not writing the report for what provision is available. Besides who knows what places might be available by Spring?