Possible aspergers diagnosis

[MollieO]

I hope that someone can give me some guidance on this. Ds (5) saw community paediatrician today to follow up teacher's earlier concerns of ds not paying attention and not listening in class. Problems seem to have lessened as term goes on and ds is working well in class and with homework.

Developmentally ds is fine but two non-school issues have given the paed cause for concern - night terrors and ds's imagination.

The paed said that in all his years of practice he had never come across a child with such an active imagination. Ds has an imaginary family and has done so since he was two. Started off with a mum and dad and developed to mum, dad. 3 children, a babysitter, a builder and his work team. I've always thought it was quite funny and nothing to worry about. Ds is sociable, has RL friends, is empathetic, no repetitive behaviour. He does ask lots of questions but not the same question over and over again.

Night terrors have occurred since ds was 8 months old. Averages about every two weeks but again nothing that has overly concerned me. Ds wakes up before midnight screaming, crying, incoherent, unaware of his surroundings. Lasts about 10 or 15 mins and then he goes back to sleep.

Paed thinks the presence of both night terrors and such a highly developed imagination are indicators of aspergers, although he admits that ds doesn't have the other markers you'd expect.

Has anyone had experience of similar concerns and if so did it turn out to be aspergers or something else or nothing?

hopeful bump

Thx SM. From what I've read I was rather surprised by what the paed said. He's always had a very active imagination but it never occurred to me that there might be anything wrong with that. Also haven't been concerned about the night terrors as it isn't every night and whilst ds is upset at the time he has no memory of them the next day.

I will wait and see what the paed says next.

Hi Mollie.

haven't seen you on here for a while, how goes it?

Am a little at the Paed.

Google NAS Triad; the triad of impairments is the things a child or adult needs to have to be Aspergic. And whilst some chioldren with AS do have obvious imagination, in truth ASD tends to negatively affect that and certainly that includes AS.

I have a lot of notes on diagnosis ( iam doing the dx moduleof an MA in asd atmLOL) andcan scan some in and send if you want?

Thx Peachy. I'm not sure I belong in this section tbh. I was frankly gobsmacked at what the paed said as I really didn't think ds had any Aspergers tendencies at all. I am a little concerned that he said he hadn't come across a child like ds before. Ds's teacher said the same.

Thx for your suggestion. I'll have a look and certainly get in touch if I need more. It's very kind of you to offer to send info.

The paed said he would discuss ds with achild psych and see if he needs a full assessment. Ds is also being assessed at school - they will use the Aston Index. I won't tell them what the paed thinks as I want the SENCO to form their own view.

Just googled NAS Triad and ds doesn't have any of those issues so I do think the paed is mistaken but I'll wait and see what follows.

As a parent the Paed should be taking your opinion into very serious account. We are the ones who know pur children best after all.

If you think no and the Paed thinksyes, ask for areferral to a tertiary diagnostician who specialises in complex cases.

Dear MolliO, your DS sounds a bit like mine at 5 (he's now 10). Around the ages of 3-5 he had a very active imagination, which he would freely express. His reception teacher complained that he had 'an over-active imagination', which I thought ridiculous. *schools are obsessed with encouraging imagination, just at an amount that they deem acceptable). He also had night terrors at that age, which he grew out of. The school were (and still are)convinced he was asperger's, although when I (and the paed) did the checklist, the diagnosis was not there.

Not sure if this is helpful. The bee in my bonnet now is that I think that sometimes nowadays being a bit different, leads to an aspie label, extremely easily.

Mine has a dx of Asperger's and got it at 9 years old, he has an active imagination in a very specific fields and had night terrors from 6-9. increasing at times of external stress eg at school.
I posted a list of possible AS symptoms a while back, one section might be applicable.

"Difficulties with social imagination, imaginative play and flexible thinking.

This one causes some confusion as people say 'Well, he plays with his lego and makes up stories and has imagination, so...?'
It's the social aspect of imaginative play that can cause difficulties. If the child is in total control of their 'world' and setting the agenda, then they are being imaginative. AS children find it difficult to play when other individuals are involved that have different ideas or who don't perform as expected, unlike a lego or toy figure.
Abstract thinking is another area of difficulty, although the child may learn facts and figures easily, dealing with abstract concepts, without clear outcomes may be a challenge. Subjects like literature, religion and philosophy."

Mine ticked few of the boxes at 9 for primary symptoms, but all of the secondary ones. Turned out my parenting style was masking a lot of the issues, suited him so well that there was little conflict except in school interactions. That has changed as he grew up, he's now 15 and ticking all of the key triad boxes as well.

That's interesting. Ds does initiate play with friends at home - he chooses the scenario. At school he says they take it in turns. I've always thought he is pretty sociable.

I wonder about parenting style since the issues he has had at school haven't replicated themselves at home.

His perception might be that they take turns, might be worth asking the teacher too.
Also how he behaves/copes with a game that hasn't got clear rules, and what happens if someone else wants a change that he doesn't. Can he compromise? Mine finds that near impossible with peers.

Don't know. His teacher is virtually unapproachable. I will wait and see what the school assessment reveals. I do think that his teacher is a glass half empty person and will look for problems and labels when none are needed. I am probably more happy to take the lead from the community paediatrician and child psychologist (assuming that is where we are referred). The paed is writing to ds's teacher to get more info on the teacher's concerns.

From what I've seen of ds playing he does seem to play like others of his age. I've never noticed anything particularly different and those that I've mentioned this possible diagnosis too were as surprised as me. The paed made quite a big thing of saying that he could talk to ds using adult language and it was clear ds understod perfectly. Although he did say he thought ds's continual questions could be quite trying (not repetitive but lots of them).

Merle I'm not convinced thats most peoples experience, tehree are a few Paeds happy to dole out dx'seprhaps but in the main most people I encounter with very obviously AS children struggle to get a DX. A lot of it is postcode lottery- we were toldwith ds1 there was no point in a dx as they cannot cure AS (???), and when we moved the Paeed gave it within a year which is usually pretty good going.

That description ofsocial imagination is a good one, and applies as well to some autistic kids; ds3 has a rigid concept of his world that he owns and absolutely thinks he is in total control. breaking that down results in massive stress for him so it is a constant battle to find a mid way.

DS1 plays but has that rigidity- if someone else tells him what to do the world ends (to the extent he is now banned from play yard until next term).

I as intrigued by the comment about religion and philosophy- know a few Aspies with RSP degress LOL (its generally accepted I could get a dx if I asked, both by family and professionals, and guess what my degree is in LOL?)- I think the differenxce is in the way I approach it and for me yes its a logical approach. My interest is on cultures andwhys / wherefores: I did struggle a bit with some of the metaphysics,and certainly my best grades were in Sikhism etc which IMO are easier to pin down that branches of other religions (particularly Hinduism).