Question about confusion - ASD

[chopstheduck]

Ds came out of school yesterday absolutely distraught. There is a school trip next week and he doesnt want to go.

He normally likes trips and I was trying to get to the bottom of it, and he does have communication problems, but basically he had the idea first that it was for a week rather than a day trip. Then he told me something about he thought they were expected to do exercises when they see things and he was worried about that. (he is physically disabled too, so struggles with anything like that). I really don't understand where he got the idea from. He doesn't lie or make things up ever.

I really do wonder wt is going on at school, he jsut seems bewildered a lot of the time. He is ok with the normal set routine, but anything out of the usual school day and he is clueless. Is this normal for asd?

Totally my ds does it all the time. For example he came out of school last week with a rocket he had made. He told me the next day i had to go into school as all the parents were going to watch the class do the 'rocket dance'.

Next day, he took the rocket back into school and told me not to forget to stay and watch.

Turns out the class had been making the rockets they made dance and year 3 were having a sharing assembly that day, he often puts 2 and 2 together and makes 5!

My ds has problems processing information and recalling events, which i understand is quite common in ASD. Also when he gets anxious all logic goes out the window.

What are the school doing to help with his bewilderment, does he have visual timetables? (this is something my ds's school have just put into place, after a big battle!)

"Children with ASD tend to have difficulties in three key areas: language, behaviour and imaginative thinking. This is sometimes referred to as the triad of impairments. These three areas are distinct but also interrelated. For example, people?s behaviour in different situations can determine their use of language, and vice versa. Imaginative thinking can also affect language understanding. In particular, lack of imaginative thought (for example, an inability to grasp innuendo or idiomatic language) may well lead to misinterpretation of what people are saying."

Our DD seems to have the same problems. Yesterday when DH was telling her he would be going for ONE DAY abroad, she panicked. It took us like half an hour to explain that Daddy wil not be gone for ever, and i am still not sure she got it right
The key for these kids seems to be in SHORT and CLEAR sentences, but teachers need to talk for all the children in the class, so sometimes confusion might appear.

Try to explain to him what he might have missed in the school; he will hopefully calm down and understand, poor him.

Oh I am relieved it is normal for him!

I think he is putting 2+2 together and making 5 too. Poor ds had visions of combining a trip to the musuem with PE!

The school are doing sfa atm. We should be getting a formal dx very soon, then ds can access the autism teaching services and they can send the school representive to a days training course. I have an appointment with the senco again next week, so will mention it to him, and have a chat with his teacher after schoool today.

I'm not really sure how they can deal with it. He understands the normal school week, it's anything outside of the normal routine. I sat down with him showing pics of when we went to the musuem in question to reassure him a bit, but he still thinks he has to do exercises.

I do love the rocket dance plan!

Could the teacher have used the word exibits its a bit like exersize if you only hear the first bit (as my son does) - or used the word exersize in another usage - such as completing tasks.
Ds gets lots of these sort of confusions too ( mostly I have no idea what caused it either) and gets very upset by the resulting confusion. Time is a great struggle for him. We use sleeps ie after this bed time you go to x, or in 7 sleeps time it will be--

chopstheduck - I gave a copy of this to the school, i also found it very helpful.

www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1394&a=4380

Now if they had a visual timetable in place with his daily routine, they could also warn him in advance of any changes to it.

My ds doesnt have an official dx, however he does have the same problems as an ASD child and needs which need to be met, regardless of dx. I think i am the school's worst nightmare!

www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1393&a=13865

Also this one, sets out some strategies for schools. Anything like my ds's school and im just an over anxious mum, who has no idea what she is talking about! Helps to have official information from experts to back you up.

claw3, the articles were just great to read. i can try to imagine all those rules in place at home when i have one or two kids to handle. but how does it work for teachers in a 20 kids clasroom? i'm asking this because we live abroad and i still don't really know how much can i expect from the school... can they really be expected to deal with an ASD kid (according to all those rules that might make it work) among all the others? what is the system like in UK?

thanks very much for that, I will print off the second one and take it in to the teacher.

The paed thought ds def has autism rather than aspergers. I can't remember now what it was that decided it, but it was clear at the time!

magso, I think you might be right there! He did say something about every time we see something we have to do moving things, so he could have got exhibits and exercise confused! He's not very good with long words at all really, he needs clear and concise. He also forgets language, so is pretty easily confused.

I don't see any reason why a lot of that can't be used with all of the children.

For example they have a list of things they need to do at the end of the day, it wouldn't be hard to make that more visual.

We already ahve the buddy bench in place (though ds doesn't get that, he expects if he sits a buddy will instantly appear, and gets upset when it doesn't happen!). We also have the mentoring thing, and ds adores his buddy. He yells budddeeeeee every time he sees him!

Can see how some of it would be hard with a full class though. I think that is prob why ds is struggling now, as there isn't the TA support in Juniors.

Joburg, its really not as complicated as it looks! Its all about visual, if you can imagine a child with ASD thinks in pictures, so pictures are their first language, verbal is their second language.

Abstract is very hard for ASD children, so think concrete experiences. Pictures, demonstrations, visual examples, hands on experiences to teach.

Visual timetables are just pictures, placed in order on a bit of card of the days events, rather than telling NOW/NEXT you show. Once the chart is made (takes about 10 minutes to make) no hassle at all really!

You can expect your childs needs to be met and as long as what you are asking for is reasonable in order to meet that childs need, they HAVE to comply.

There is lots of information available in the UK, but the schools usually dont want to make any extra work for themselves, you have to fight to get any help or support in place.

Chopstheduck - Just had a thought is the school trip on the day he would usually do PE?

DD is in year 1 in a school following a british curriculum and still the teacher had difficulties believing me when i told her abt DD's problems with language. It has not been long since DD started school, so i don't want to complain too much. also i don't want to hijack the original post. I was just wondering if teachers can really handle so many difficult cases (i can only imagine that each kid needs special treatment more or less).
anyway, yeap, DD has problems with understanding dialogues sometimes. We try to slow down in our speech, use very simple words, and simple tones that would make her feel comfortable (no irony, jokes, etc). Sometimes it works, sometimes she is still confused and so we just try to distruct her mind from it .... right now we can't afford language therapy

joburg, don't worry about hijacking. It sounds like your dd could really use more visual communication. I find myself speaking to ds like a toddler often, emphasising all the key words, so he can pick those out.

No claw, not a pe day. Though tbh he doesn't know when those are anyhow, he jsut knows its twice a week and its a PE day when I give him his kit in the morning to take in!

Joburg, ASD is a very complex disorder as im sure you have already noticed. Trying to get teachers to understand why a child would experience the problems they do is extremely hard, which is why your input is so important, you might not be an ASD expert, but you are an expert on your child! You know what works for your child and what doesnt and the school should view you as a good source of information.

The school has a duty of care to every child. To expect a special needs child to just fit in, with no help, is discrimination.

I would agree that it must be difficult for teachers, which is why the help that you are 'allowed' has to reasonable in relation to the child's needs. If the help goes beyond what you could normally expect a teacher to give, the school (or you) can apply for a statement of one to one support for a child.

A good teacher could incorporate the special needs childs needs into normal classroom activities which would benefit the whole class at your DD's age. There are games which can be played in groups for the whole class (something which a teacher would normally do anyway)

For example:1. provide the opportunity to play a game of question and answers, in a group, where each child take turns asking questions about each other and providing a short answer. This can be explained that a good conversation is where both people get to share the talking equally.

1. role play in a group, the situations they have trouble with: initiating a conversation, joining in another child's activity, or inviting another child to play a game.

1. Work in a group as a team and learn how to incorporating the ideas and suggestions of others into an activity. Give and take in conversation and activity. Recognizing and understanding the opinions of others. Empathizing with others in both positive and negative situations

Its difficult isnt it, my ds carries around a card, setting out instructions of how to talk to him ie Keep questions specific, give me time to answer etc.

No extra work for anyone really.

chops are you on TTR? I may have a PP from last nights Uni lexcture whcih covers a slide or two on how teahcers can help with ASD / As in the classroom (and is interesting anyway- in the 18 hours since it elapsed I have recognised tourettes in ds1 and ADHD in ds3).

Chop, thats the PE theory out the window then!

Could you get the teacher to tell him that he doesnt have to do any excerises?

Anything like my ds and his 'rocket dance' he wouldnt believe me that it wasnt going to happen, because he thought the information came from school, a teacher had to explain to him.

She simply told him 'yes we did make the rockets dance, but no mums or dads will be coming to watch' and he had to give me his rocket to take back home.

He looked so disappointed!

aww, poor ds, claw!

I am going to talk to the teacher with ds after school today, and then hopefully he will believe us!

peachy I am on ttr, yes, and would love the info please if you do have it.

I hope it works and that he enjoys the trip.

We sorted it out!

it was an exercise sheet the teacher had been talking about. Ds heard exercise and thought physical exercise. He looked soo relieved then burst into tears again! At least he is happy about the trip now.

Glad you sorted it chops! My DS does exactly the same thing.

Peachy would be interested in your PP.

Claw - have you applied for a statement?

Hi Debs, hows things?

Not yet, i am having one last attempt at getting an IEP with some actual real help on it, rather than just waiting for outside agencies advice. Sent in a copy of what i want included on the IEP today this is my second attempt, so fingers crossed.

I have been very patient with the school, but my patience is wearing very thin now.

Chops, it always seems so obvious once you know doesnt it!