Is it normal for an IEP

[claw3]

to state concerns and some targets, with no help being given?

For example

Concern: X struggles to get himself undressed/dressed for PE. Target: X will take no longer than 10 minutes to get changed for PE.

Concern: X has an extremely limited diet and will only eat a fraction of his lunch. No target.

Concern: X finds it difficult to build positive relationships with peers and feels rejected and isolated. X is in the process of being referred to outreach to work on his social skills. No target.

I have told the school i would like one to one for these things, no funds, no staff, etc, etc. But even so what is the point of having an IEP stating concerns, with no help being given and sometimes no targets? Are they allowed to do this?

Sorry should have added, should i just accept IEP and use this to apply for a statement?

I have already put in writing what i would like the IEP to include and this IEP is the 2nd draft by the school.

Had a meeting with the school yesterday and it seems this is as good as it gets.

Not normal at all IME.

Ours have a column briefly stating the problem, eg getting dressed.

The next sets out what is going to be done to help and who will be responsible for this, eg X will use picture cards to remind him which order to put his clothes on in. Miss Y to supervise.

Finally it will describe the target, eg X is able to dress himself for PE in under 10 minutes at least once a week.

The time scale is to be reviewed in January 2010. At this rate January will be here, before the IEP is agreed!

No i havent signed it, as im not happy with it. The school sent 1st copy home about 2 weeks ago. I put in writing, what i would like the IEP to include, what help i would like to be given, how progress would be measured and what targets should be. I also asked for some inaccuracies to be changed.

They have taken on board what i would to be included in the IEP and included it. They have dealt with the inaccuracies. But they havent included help and in some cases targets.

I saw the SENCO yesterday to discuss what i would like the IEP to include.

PE for example, says ds struggles and he is target is to get changed in 10 minutes, but does not include how he is supposed to achieve this. SENCO says no staff for one to one help

Hi Coppertop - God we have come a long way, since we last spoke on here, you were the person who made me aware of ds's heightened senses when i thought his only problem was eating about 3 years ago! How's it going for you?

Now your IEP makes perfect sense to me. I can understand that the school may not be able to give ds one to one support (without a statement) and was hoping they would meet me half way at least and offer some help. Are they allowed to highlight a concern and offer no help what so ever?

The PE is ridiculous, for starters how on earth is ds suppose to know how long 10 minutes is!

no - IEP shuld state the concern/area of weakness, then state how they plan to help your chil with it, then have an expected timescale for the outcome.

sounds v strange, i would be fuming

Hi Claw.

Was that really 3 years ago?

Things are generally going well here. A few ups and downs but not bad overall.

Your school's attitude sounds odd (to put it politely!). My two aren't statemented so don't have a 1:1 with them, but still get real help with IEP targets.

Ds1 used to find dressing and undressing a problem because of his motor skills and general organisational difficulties.

The school tried different strategies for him. He liked stickers so was offered those as a general incentive. He also had a strip of symbols with a flap that could be closed over easch one after he'd put that particular item of clothing on. I think he might even have had a timer for a while to help keep him focussed as he has a tendency to drift off a bit.

The cards probably needed the most support but otherwise the help he got didn't take up much time from the staff's POV.

Is it a school where they don't have much experience of children with SN? I ask because I'm surprised that they don't already have groups to help with social skills and friendship-building.

Mayornaze - The school are very strange. The dont appear to know their arse from their elbow!

For example, i had a meeting about improving ds's self esteem with tamhs, ds's learning mentor and class TA. I highlighted PE ie if ds is struggling without help and other children are coping. This would be detrimental to ds's self esteem. TA replies this isnt a problem anymore and ds is coping now (despite me being given an IEP the week before stating ds struggles with PE)

Mentioned this to SENCO yesterday ie we first need to establish and set the record straight, is ds struggling with PE or not? Well some days, he does! ARGH!!

Coppertop - Yes it must be 3 years now or there abouts, i remember my first thread was titled something like 'my 3 year old son doesnt eat', he will be 6 in March! More ups than downs, i hope

Ds finds dressing/undressing difficult because of his sensory issues, he says the action of pulling clothes on/off burns his skin, so is very reluctant to do something he finds painful. He is also worried about others touching him, especially on bare skin, as this is also painful to him.

At home i use something similar to you, a sequence chart of the process and lots of prompting and a timer, as once ds starts to feel anxious, all logic goes out of the window and he cant focus.

I took these with me to the meeting and told them how well they work at home. I explained why he would have problems with the dressing/undressing.

The school's solution is to let ds get changed for PE in the book corner, away from others (although this wasnt included in the IEP). They also said they would use a timer, but i pointed out to them, the sequence chart and timer need to be used together otherwise ds would just panic and not know what to do. So they will just put ds in the corner! bloody brilliant eh!

It is MS school, but they do have other SN children there. I suspect no one quite like ds or perhaps the other parents are just easily pleased.

I did ask about a 'buddy' scheme, they dont have this. Apparently they feel it puts too much pressure on the other children without SN's!

oh dear

do you take notes at these meetings? i know it sounds a bit full on but it would help you keep a record of what is said/not said/contradicted! don't know any of your history, sorry, but is your gp on board? are school nurses helpful?

sorry you're having such a nightmare

Oh yes, i always feel like a council inspector going to meetings with my clipboard and pen! Full on, not at all, i was thinking of recording our meetings!

Obviously a severe lack of communication, which is why the IEP really needs to be put in place. I also suspect a severe lack of reading anything regarding ds, as in previous meeting, SALT recommendations were not known (luckily i had a copy to hand ). Even during this meeting SENCO was not aware of things i had told her in writing, 2 weeks ago!

GP, no. All referrals came from HV, i avoid GP as she is of the 'dont worry he will grow out it' school of thought, even after having been told he has a disorder.

I have also avoided the school nurse, i see her as just another person to try and explain ds to.

Paeds up to this point have been useless, other than to make referrals. No understanding of social, communication or psychological or sensory problems.

Dietitian, sympathetic, but no understanding.

TAMHS, sympathetic, understanding of psychological problems, but not of why he might have these problems ie sensory.

OT, brilliant, totally understood, but couldnt do her job properly ie keep appointments, return phone calls, write a report, provide a sensory diet, go into school etc, etc. (made an official complaint)

SALT, understanding, but has taken them 3 and half years to get involved (made an official complaint). Have recently made referrals for social and communication assessment.

Currently waiting on appointments for referrals to CAMHS, feeding clinic, incontinence service.

Sorry for rant

can you push for the school to involve the ed psych?

i do feel for you, it is rubbish when nothing seems to happen without you putting all your weight behind it

I have my Y1 IEPs here in front of me - just doing some assessment stuff on them after working with the children this morning. Some of the children are on School Actionn, some School Action Plus - but the IEP formats are the same for all.

At the top of each IEP we have:

Child's name and DOB, class details
Class teacher's name and TA's name
Area(s) of concern
Date of this IEP, and what number it is
Date of next review (these were written this month and will be reviewed in Feb 2010)
Start date of support

We then have a table listing:

• Targets to be achieved - mine have 3-4 on mostly

e.g.

• To count relaibly to 10 objects using one t one correspondence
• to undeerstand and use three key words in the same phrase, locting and pointing to significant objects in pictures
• to take part in group activities and communicate confidently with his peers

• Achievement criteria

e.g.

• accurate on 5 seperate occasions
• achieved on 6 seperate occassions
• observed on 5 seperate occassions

• Possible resources and/r techniques

e.g.

• objects to count; count fingers; count steps; board games involving moving squares; computer software
• picture books; what's wrong pictures; sentence maker; photographs
• group activities; team games; circle time; role play

• Possible class strategies

e.g.

• Allow x to collect toys from group members and count how many
• provide opportunities for class discussions f pictures; ask quesions about objects x is using
• set group tasks with clear instructions

• Ideas for support/assistant

e.g.

• make sure that x touches each item as he counts
• look at photos or pictures with x and find something of interest
• talk about tasks with x; join in with role play and model behaviour and language

• Outcome(s)

e.g.

• x to be able to count to 10 consistently on his own
• x to be able to construct and say sentences following subject verb object strucure
• x to be able to successful participate in group activity and play fairly

At the bottom there is

• Parents/Carers contribution

e.g.

• read topic books with x share the topic wordbanks sent home

• Student contributions

e.g.

• say the verbs that adults model to her in activities

Claws3, sorry to hear about your IEP. It doesn't sound very good. We struggled for the last 3 years in Primary school with the Senco writing lovely IEPs with lots of small group sessions for PE and social skills. The only problem was the sessions never took place most of the time and when the time for review came they would just give us another IEP with a new set of lovely sounding plans. I could never find out whose responsibility it was to carry out the plan. If you complain afterwards, they always say you must put the past behind you and concentrate on the future - mainly trying to focus your attention on the impending doom of secondary school. In year 5, we had a meeting once a fortnight with the class teacher, Senco and learning mentor - that was the only way to achieve any progress (this was when DS had reached rock bottom, was very depressed and was being picked on by several children in the class with the result that he wanted to spend all his time in the time-out corner). In year 6, we put our trust in the school again - result no support for 2 terms. Finally we insisted on a circle of friends, more or less had to shame them into it and it was very good. That stuff about putting pressure on the other kids it crap, because it actually builds everyone involved's self-esteem if you have a buddy system or a circle of friends.

ps. Hulababy - I apologise for this pedantry, but you are a teacher, I presume, and you don't know how to spell "separate", please write out 100 lines - Separate is spelt with an 'a' after the 'p'. It pains me terribly when I see that word spelled wrongly.

google 'SMART targets IEP'. there's loads on tinternet about how IEP targets should be dealt with. in theory you are not supposed to be able to statement until you have proved that the iep in isolation does not work - so i would get them to do that bit properly first. it takes so long to apply for a statement that even if you choose to go ahead, you can still have sorted out the iep anyway.

rofl @ mumsy btw

mumsyof1 - I can spell perfectly well, just can't always do it at speed nad when typing. heck my regular posts - my spelling and typing can be dreadful on her. My written work for school, I assure you, if spot on.

cut and paste just makes the problems look worse - why is always the errors that end up being duplicated. maybe I should just type out each separate sentence one by one, so typing errors only occur once instead of lots of times

Hulababy - very helpful post!!!

No probelm - I assume you mean my first post, lol Seriously hope it is of use. I haven't written all the IEPs, the class teacher has, but I do the monitoring and assessment of them day to day, and make recommendations to the actual content.

Sorry Hulababy, I'm obsessed with that one word - wonder where my ds gets his Aspergers from !

No worries mumsyof1 - just been a few threads around about peopple makign comments n poster's spellings and grammer; got me in a rant!

No worries mumsyof1 - just been a few threads around about peopple makign comments n poster's spellings and grammar; got me in a rant!