I seem to be the ONLY one who thinks DS5 needs statmenting.

[misscutandstick]

DS5 non-verbal, GDD, autistic (but friendly), brain injured (root cause of GDD and dyspraxia) with very probably a dash of ADHD thrown in for good measure...

HOWEVER he is extremely freindly, hugs the TA's, kisses his teacher every morning, happy smiley chappy who just kinda does his own thing without any behavioural issues. HE is coping just fine! he likes school.

well of course he is, he doesnt 'get' that theres anything other than wandering around nursery all morning doing whatever takes his fancy!

is there learning going on? No, not one Jot.

THAT SAID... he is only 3.5y, with a working age of 18mths (ie. hes just learnt to drag a chair over to high cupboards to empty them, which i feel is really late for a 3,5y/o). How much learning can i really expect to be going on? He doesnt understand the vast majority of language, hes at a basic one word naming level. He cant possibly follow any instruction or explanation: more than 'point and name' or narration of play.

EVERY ONE of the 'professionals' tell me hes young, (DUH???) and that we ought to wait and see. Teachers say "hes doing fine", portage says "hes doing well", ed psych says "we'll review in 3/6mths", SALT says "I'll leave work with the teachers/TA's, and they can perhaps do some work with him"...

I have 4 children with SEN, and TBH its all extremely wearing, appts, reviews, forms, therapies and therapists. Is this something i need to add to my list right now? Am i expecting too much from my child at his current position?

This is all really hard and Im fed up of fighting.

Any thoughts at all much much much appreciated.

TIA xKx

Can you as them bluntly if they really think that what you have described is in the parameters for normal development ? If they are trying to avoid paying to help him they may play on your reluctance to ask hard questions.

i think that when they say "doing well" - they mean doing well under the circumstances of his 'delay' - incidentally a term I am beginning to hate, its NOT delay, hes NOT going to miraculously catch up. I am not giving up on him, i am trying to be realistic in terms of his capabilities.

Through hard work we've (both me and DS5) managed to raise his makaton to around 80 signs - all nouns. he doesnt get 'more' or 'want' (he substitutes the word for the thing that he wants, eg. starts calling an 'apple' a 'more'). He needs constant reminders tho, otherwise he forgets.

He is a happy child who loves going to school, should i be pushing for more considering that in all areas hes only 18mths old? How many 18mth babies are ready to read and count? Although admittedly most 18mth/olds are more 'aware' than he is (but he IS autistic), but can this be taught???

Looking at the flip side of the coin, if he was in an SN nursery, what more could be done for him?

Bloody hell 4 kids with SN's, its bad enough fighting to get help for 1, you must be exhausted.

Does he have an IEP?

yes, actually i am.

yes he does, and it has reasonable things on it:

1. to work up to sitting on carpet for 3mins for groupwork
   (getting much better at, at first he wouldnt go near carpet, now he chooses to sit on carpet with other kids for around 30 secs before getting bored, -but when you dont understand whats being said, and theres lots of interesting things to get your fingers in, why would you???)

2. To start a task when initiated by teacher (or something similar, hes still on 'own agenda' so tends not to follow action)

3. to finish one task before starting another.

PS DS1 17y ADHD, DS2 12y mild ASD, DS4 4.5y AS, DS5 3.5y Autism - so we may have 5 sons but we have 'one of each'

I would say yes he definatly should have a statement. A lovely huggy nursery enviroment is one thing but reception with 30 kids 1 teacher and a TA is another matter. You can start the process yourself. see the IPSEA website. sometimes professionals want a "prolonged period of observation" but 1assume he is due to start reception 2010 . It usually takes 6 months to get a statement in place.

we have been turned down for assessment twice. Hes due to go up to F2 (reception class) in January of 2011 (because of month of birth).

I know of appeal process and got all documents for. BUT NO-ONE professional will get involved, they all say along the lines of "doing fine" (considering his ability).

There will be aanother review in dec (day after BIBIC visits) with the head of the LEA coming along too. TBH im not sure i want to face him after hes turned me down twice for an assessment. Proffessionals have encouraged me to take opportunity to chat and try and persuade him why i want statementing for DS5.

LOL@ one of each

I feel for you, i really do, im finding it difficult enough fighting for 1!

Perhaps the targets are a bit unachievable for him, i remember reading somewhere that an unachievable goal is worse than no goal at all.

To start a task when initiated by a teacher, it would help if the task involved something he was actually interested in for starters!

Can you get someone from his future school along to say they will need LSA support. SOSSEN may be helpful too

Also does it state HOW he is suppose to achieve these goals?

I assume through one to one help?

MARY the meeting will be held at school with his teacher, his helper (who also helps all other kids), various professionals (SALT EP) and the head of LEA bloke.

CLAW, yes have dug it out:

Its got 5 categories, and 3 targets:

Things i find difficult:
1)Sitting on carpet with the group

2)Starting work when asked

3)Doing one task at a time

My targets:

1. I must sit and listen to simple instructions, on the carpet for 3 minutes before i start work

2)I will begin work when asked

3)I will try to finish one taks before I start another one.

What do i need to do?
1)i need to sit still and show "good listening" (LOL!) to the adults at the start of the session.

2)Look for my photo on the activity box that shows me what i have to do

3)listen carfefully to the taks and finsh it before moving to a new one.

whos going to help?
1)Mrs P will hlep me by using appropriate signs to help me undersnd the instructions (thats a laugh because she doesnt know makaton, and admits shes had no training)

2)Mrs P will use the "work" sign to help me start my activity (??? hows that going to help exactly???)

3)Mrs P will hlep me by using the appriate signs to hlep me finish the taks before i try to start another.

Then its got a box "how did i get on?" with the review date in Dec. NB Mrs P is not a dedicated 1:1, and spends time with DS5 when the others are doing their teacher led learning (literacy and numeracy time).

perhaps this IEP is not what it first appears to be... or perhaps when he fails to meet his targets it will show his inability to cope? (grasping at straws here ) therefore helping towards statementing???

I received some really good advice on here when my ds came home with an IEP last week that wasnt worth the paper it was written on!

1. What activities are they doing with ds to work on his listening/attention skills?

1. Who is prompting and encouraging ds to look in his photo box?

Ask the school how they plan to communicate with your ds, if no one knows makaton - if they say no staff have been trained - 1 good reason to apply for statement.

would you like me to dig out an example of what a good IEP should say (advice i received on here the other day?

Then when the school say they cant offer that help, you use this to apply for statement.

I wonder if they think that he'd be OK on school action +? Some LAs expect school to put in the first 15 hrs 1:1, so perhaps they think "he will be ok at a, b & c times, so the 15 hours will spread ok". Not right, but some LAs think like that.

What do you think he needs? Start with that and see if he would get it without a statement.

My strongest argument for statutory assessment was "how can you decide what is appropriate for my child without assessing her needs?"

claw, that would be great, thanks

we are in Nottinghamshire, so more likely to get blood out of stones than a statement here.

LOU, I think thats probably a good start. If i were to get everything i wanted for DS5, what would i want for him? Actually im not sure. I suppose ideally i would want ALL staff makaton trained and using it.

is he doing the full number of sessions yet? IIRC you were having problems with that.

We had the same problem when ds2 was at pre school.
Bottom line was although he was delayed in all areas because his bewhaviour was fine therefore not being disruptive to the class/teacher etc they deemed an assessment not appropriate.

In the end once in reception the head teacher had to remind the SEN officer that assessments should be given with regard to the needs of the child & the childs education & NOT the needs of the class & the teaching staff.
He actually had to point out the paragraphs in the SEN code of priactice where he would be failing my ds if an assessment were not carried out.
Just because a child is not disruptive & is happy does nto mean that they could not achieve more & be even happier with greater support.

I stated on a number of occasions to all staff that his physical ability to cope with full morning sessions 5 days a week wasnt in question...

Until the request for statementing went in, stating clearly that the nursery cant cope or meet his needs because of the amount of attendance they were willing to give him. I stated clearly dates and times of him having to come home. The response? Strangely the very next week he was invited to stay for full sessions all week . Incidentally on the refusal letter it reads like im making it all up! (you know the phrases "mother reports that.../you say that.../you imply that...")

also incidentally it doesnt mention anything at all in response to me saying that the EP told me directly that "...in another county I would push for statementing, but here in Nottinghamshire he doesnt need one" followed by a comment from me of autism/LD not knowing the boundaries of countys and what would it matter what county he lives in? surely if he needs one in one county, then naturally he would need one in any county.

Anon, could do with having your head!

Sadly eh has retired now but was much more common sense than policy iykwim

Could you ask to see the criteria for statementing in your LEA. Your school should have a copy I imagine. Once you know what the criteria is, you may find it easier to gather the evidence that you need to persuade the LEA to assess.

FWIW, I used to be an EP before children, and your DS would have met the criteria for statementing where I worked.

Hi Misscutandstick, sorry its taken so long, ive been busy preparing for a meeting tomorrow.

Here is an example, taken from my ds's IEP (of what i want included anyhow!):

?At times X separates himself, often physically from the rest of the class if a lesson involves an activity he dislikes (such as role-play or reading) and on these occasions he can be non-communicative? (I understand carpet time, sitting in groups and getting changed for PE also get the same reaction)

? X will receive X amount of hours of one to one support each day/week provided by X which will aim to proactively teach him ways to express his feelings and emotions as per SALT recommendations.

? X will be provided with the opportunity to practise these skills X times a week during which time he will be observed by X and will receive praise and feedback on how well he did and what he could do to handle this situation.

? X will be provided with a visual timetable, which will be placed at X in the classroom, it will include the whole days activities, X will be encouraged and prompted by X to check the timetable when he arrives in school to see what activity is first, then tick off each activity after it has happened and look to see what activity is next, including the activities he finds difficult so he will know what is going to happen in advance, giving X some control in the situation (thereby alleviating confusion and anxiety)

? To be reviewed each month or term and revised targets set in response to progress.

Would also add Misscutandstick, i have received a letter today from the school in response to my amendments that i asked them to make to the IEP.

It states 'I understand that you feel X requires one to one support. However as i am sure you are aware, schools have limited resources which we must utilise appropriately in order that we can help and support as many children as possible, including x'

Statement here we come!

OMG claw thats disgusting! like other children are any of your concern what-so-ever!!!!

If they havent the resources, thats surely their problem and not yours???

wish i could take my own advice on that one tho!

Just found out that the TA who is supposed to give DS5 his 1:1 time, is not only the 1:1 to at least 2 other children, but she takes groups as well (I heard the teacher say to another mum "yes your DS is doing so well we've moved him UP to