Had meeting with ed.psy today.......she recommends we 'wait and see'.

[mysonben]

Ed.psy went to DS s'nursery to observe him.
Then we had meeting to discuss her opinion and what route to take to help ds.
First she said he has an obvious speech delay, and it is excellent news that he has been offered a place at a language unit (he starts there next week), then she said yes there are some issues concerning social skills and 'unusual' behaviours but it could be down to his lack of clear communication.
She wants to see if the push ds will get from the language unit get his social and play skills to develop further.
So we are to have a review in april to see where things are.

She said ds will be on early years action+ when he enters reception, and that his needs are very borderline regarding a statement.
And that he will manage just fine with the extra support action+ will bring.
She is also refering us to 'SAUCEPANS' (which is run by CAMHS) to get some guidance with behaviours at home.

She said DS has definately communication and social problems atm, but may not be 'bad' enough to call it autism, and that the whole picture will become clearer by the time he starts school, as HFA is very hard to dx accurately before age 5 or 6.

She will be sending a copy of her report to the paed. and salt. What will they make of that??? Since we have a meeting in 2 weeks with consultant paed regarding referal to CAMHS for asd assessment. ...

I don't know what to think anymore...
The minute i get my head round to think and fully accept DS has asd, another professional comes along and throw doubs over the whole situation.
I'm fed up with waiting for clear and definate answers.

I don;t think the SALT and paed will make much of her report.

As for this comment from her:-

"She said DS has definately communication and social problems atm, but may not be 'bad' enough to call it autism, and that the whole picture will become clearer by the time he starts school, as HFA is very hard to dx accurately before age 5 or 6".

My response is that the EP cannot make any such pronouncements whatsoever - this person is not qualified to say such things.

They are also employed by the LEA and are under great pressure not to issue statements readily.

I would be talking to the language unit on a regular basis to get updates re your DS.

I would personally disagree with her assertion that SA plus will be enough (I would have asked the EP well why the language unit now?) - there is no real SALT/language provision of any sort provided under SA plus and the support offered can be very limited. Its also cheaper than a Statement. Its a couple of hours a week max and there is no one to one. It is also not legally binding - unlike a Statement document. All SA plus really means is that outside agencies are involved.

I would seriously consider applying for the Statement ahead of your DS going into Reception. Will he still have this language unit place when he is in Reception?.

I'd be also now seeking advice from organisations like IPSEA and or SOS;SEN.

I am sorry it has thrown you into turmoil. We had a lot of 'wait and see' or time will tell - and ds difficult start to life and global delays threw in extra reason for caution. I found all that waiting very difficult. I suspect (as a nonmedic) it really is difficult to be sure (without a full assessment) in young children. Ds was refused assessment at 4, but diagnosed at 7 with autism (severe) and I think that delay was a disservise. Also although the EP only quickly screened him at 4, school said he could not be assessed again for at least 2 years (which was nearly 3 with the waiting list) which added insult to injury. You must do what you feel is right for you but if it were me with my ds and camhs offered assessment I would go for it.

agree with Attila. I'ld be concerned about the comments with statementing and wouldn't take her word for it, and also feel that being in a language unit is not the same as being on school action plus. I wouldn't be as concerned about the comments re:DX as paed's view will the most important, and also the language unit will hopefully be a good support for language/communication needs.

Thanks for replies.

Attila, no the language unit is for under 5, it stops when a child enters reception.

I too felt the ed.psy was telling me things that she isn't supposed to.
So i do take it with a pinch of salt.
I wish i had pertinant questions and answers at the time, but i can never say things at the right moment.
I dis ask his teacher if she feels DS will need a statement,....she said " it isn't up to me to say really!" If his own teacher can't even feel free to speak then i don't know, it's very sad.

Magso, I am still hoping that DS will get that referal to CAMHS for a full asd assessment, and if it's offered then i will take it gladly.
I'm a bit afraid that paed will pay too much attention to what ed.psy report says, as she does take all reports into careful consideration before taking the next step.
I just hope it doesn't all come to a grind now...

Also ed.psy said : DS does display some traits and behaviours that need to be watched carefully, but that he had fairly good interaction with her when pushed along in the right direction , and that he looked pleased of the attention he was getting , and showed some flexibility when she tried to introduce new things into the play, which children with asd would find impossible to cope with. ....????

Thanks Starlight,

I will eagerly wait for EP's report, and if there are anything i'm not happy with , i shall send a recorded letter to say so and highligh the issues i don't agree with.

Although on this occasion, i believe the EP was not there to do any sort of formal assessment but simply to observe and interact with DS and consequently give her opinions on his behaviour and social skills at nursery.

So on the positive side she did acknowledge that DS has communication and social delays ....and didn't imply i was neurotic or imagining things (i'm always scared they'll think that! ), she agrees his play isn't age appropriate, and is quite repetitive and sensory seeking kind of play when he plays alone.
But she thinks he interacts "too well" with adults to have asd. That is the impression i get from what she said.

On the negative side , she isn't backing us up atm for a statement , she thinks DS will manage just fine action+.
So as we are miles away from proper dx , i'm very worried about applying for a statement with no dx in sight or professional to back me up, iyswim?

....

I don't know Starlight..... If you don't mind me asking how much am i looking at money wise for a private dx?

"In any case, ask to be sent the criteria for statutory assessment (the first hurdle) because then you know wha you are working to."

Who do i ask for that? It'd be interesting to know that at the very least i agree.

Thanks.

Thanks for the info.

Will look into getting that statement criteria for sure.
As for a private dx, we could possibly maybe after Xmas, will have to speak to DH. But i'm still hoping to get referal to CAMHS in 2 weeks.

Thanks for the tips anyway.

The waiting list for CAMHS can be a long one in some areas.
A friend of mine used to work at a GP's surgery and she went through years of "wait and see" beforehand with her son. She found out that she could ask her GP to refer her son to a NHS CAMHS consultant psych who worked in the local private hospital who was high up and well respected.
She did so and her son was diagnosed.
This was about 5 years ago and cost about £100. I think its about £150ish now.
Then she went back to her GP and referred her son back to this consultants CAMHs team and as he sees that team now still.

I see, thanks Wasuup for info. It is always appreciated.

I think if the language unit is good they will be best placed to help you assess if ASD or not. All these professionals see such a snapshot of your child but once in the unit if the staff are good and really get to know the children then they will probably be able to sift out those with pure language issues from those with other stuff going on. I talked to someone who was involved with ICAN once about this and they said that often it was only after they had seen the children over time they could separate out the ones with true ASD from the ones whose social skills were just delayed because of language issues. I would hope that would give you some answers.

Thank you Grumpy..., ( i love your username) although i'm the grumpy one tonight.

Yes definately, i hope to get answers out of the language unit. Even the EP said she wants them to link with everyone. Apparently the unit knows there is a question mark about asd over DS. But they don't take kids in who have asd dx, only pure lang. issues, so i expect they will be keeping an eye out, well i hope they do!

I agree the language unit is a forward step and can only be positive in determining whats what. Different professionals will have different opinions such as the EP you have seen. My LEA's statutory assessment criteria guidelines are a minefield of this box must be ticked and these 5 points must apply ect but the laws criteria for a statutory assessment is much simpler hence why it is always worth challenging an LEA's refusal to assess.

mysonben, was the ed psych KJ? She is coming to see DD next week.

You are within your rights to persue a statutory assessment, regardless of the ed psych's opinion.

It's been said already, but the ed psych isn't qualified to give such a prognosis and certainly not to say for definite if your kid has autism.

And while improving communication can sometimes help to improve behaviour and reduce frustration, there's no guarantee of that. DS1 used to have long screaming tantrums or do really low, growly, angry humming before his speech took off when he was 4. They were swiftly replaced with prolonged rants. While he is not quite articulate in his own bizarre way, he's not magically "normal" and he does, in fact, have a statement.

I have no idea of her name i'm afraid.
Have you already met KJ?

She was quite nice to talk to really, despite the fact that she prefers the 'wait and see' approach.
She did listen to the little i said.
And as she is the EP who is attached to the school DS will be attending next year, i don't want to start off on a bad note iyswim?
What bothers me is the fact that she didn't have any background info on DS other than letter senco sent her, nor had she seen any of the paed's reports, and she spent less than 30 mins. with DS. Nowhere near long enough to presume anything in my eyes.

Might SAUCEPANS be your route in to a proper assessment? I was told about them yesterday, re dd's issues, and it seems they can refer on to the hospital if they feel it is needed. They have at least one CAHMS person on each team and the advantage is you get to see them very quickly as they are out in the community.

Somebody from Saucepans is going to ring me up today to explain about what they do (the poor bloke I spoke to yesterday had only been in the job two days); if I learn anything that might be relevant to you, I'll pass it on. The advantage I see with CAHMS/SAUCEPANS is that they have no personal axe to grind: anyone employed by the LEA is clearly going to have an interest in saving the LEA money.

Absolutly great about the language unit.

Bear in mind that it takes around 6 months to get a statement (and nothing happens in August)so early Feb is about the latest you could apply for assessment and have in place to start reception in sept if that is what is needed. However the unit staff are probably used to knowing who will likely need the support of a statement and how to push for it (what evidence and advise they need).

Hope the unit goes well for your ds.

Thank you ladies.

Cory, absolutely pass on any interesting info from SAUCEPANS (funny name hey!), that'd be great.
EP said they are part of/ working with Camhs and as there is an autism question mark above DS, she will refer him to their communication and social group. So that we can get help and guidance outside nursery and language unit settings .
So it sound good.