Please or to access all these features

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Warning, very long post: Don't know what to do or where to go with ds1

43 replies

moosemama · 19/10/2009 18:34

I'm sorry, this is going to be really, really long, please don't feel you have to read it, but I have to get it all off my chest as its all just spinning round in my head and I have to let it out.

Ds1 (7) has always been an 'unusual' little boy and when he was a toddler I guess we worked around his problems without realising it, especially with him being our first born as we had nothing to gauge what 'normal' was against.

Looking back and being slightly more informed now I can sort of see there was an 'issue' from the start. He was IUGR for the whole of the last trimester, but just managed to gain enough weight for me to be allowed to go full term with him. He was quite small, but not tiny 6 lb 6 oz and still is small for his age, being a good two years in clothes size behind his age and the smallest boy in his year.

Its only since I had dd, 9 months ago that I have started to realise how unusual he was as a baby, he never cried, not even for a feed or a nappy change. He liked to be cuddled but didn't cry to be picked up and was happy to spend time playing on his own for long periods of time but would interact if you initiated play with him. He met and even exceeded his developmental milestones, was sitting at 4 months and walking at 10 months, but never went through the normal separation anxiety thing and despite us living a fairly isolated life he would go to anyone and was always happy for me to walk away and leave him. I just thought I was blessed with an easy baby and that he didn't cry when I left because he was securely attached.

Watching my dd now, I realise that ds1 never babbled like she does, she is constantly attempting to communicate and copy sounds and searches your face for recognition and interaction. Ds1 actually developed speech early, but had a lot of his own words for things, which tended to coincide with obsessions for example he was absolutely obsessed with washing machines which he called washni and vacuum cleaners, which he called vacni, and he used to call the telephone dordor and the stereo dordordor. (He did this even after he could properly articulate and actually did know the correct names for things.) He also developed an obsessional passion for the Argos catalogue and would spend hours poring over pictures of washing machines, vacuum cleaners and telephones.

It took him longer than average to start actually mixing with the children in his class. He played 'alongside' rather than 'with' for the whole of nursery and reception and only started making friends in year 1. Fortunately, he eventually made friends with a nice small group of children that tolerate his quirks and put up with his lack of social ability and they are still close friends now. Unfortunately however, he hasn't been so lucky with some of the other children and has been on the receiving end of some truly awful bullying incidents, probably sparked by his apparent rudeness because of his poor social/communication skills.

Twice last year his teacher suggested we have a meeting with the SENCO because he was being rude and arguing with teachers when told to do or not to do things and he seemed unable to remember to do things like hand in his homework on time. He was kept in the additional group for social/communication type exercises for the whole year (although we only found out about this recently) and it made absolutely no difference to him. When we went back to try and arrange the meeting both times she said "oh no need, he's fine now"!

Now at age 7 he genuinely doesn't seem to understand that the way he speaks to people is rude. He finds it really hard to understand how his behaviour impacts on other people and often says unkind/rude things without meaning to be unkind or rude. He has a keen sense of justice/injustice but doesn't seem to recognise that these apply to his behaviour as well as everyone elses. (In fact that was almost a direct quote from his year 1 report.)

He constantly interrupts other people when they are talking, usually to say something about his computer or one of his games which makes no sense to anyone that hasn't played the game. He also makes statements of fact rather than asking questions about things he doesn't know anything about, yet is sure he is right about so he will say for example "Mummy, that thing is like that because blah, blah isn't it?" rather than "Mummy why is that thing like that? iyswim and if you say no its not like that because blah blah its because of this he gets really angry and will argue black's white about it. He also constantly tells his brother he is wrong about things whether or not he actually knows if he is right himself.

He often talks to people about his achievements in such a way as to imply he is 100% sure he is THE best at everything he does, but as a result comes across as arrogant, when I, as his Mum know that he isn't really like that at all.

He has to be constantly reminded about every little thing, to the point that I am quietly going insane from repeating myself and have over the past few weeks found it increasingly difficult to keep my temper with him. Its like you speak to him, but he just doesn't hear you. So you say something to him, wait a minute and ask him to repeat it, which sometimes he can do but obviously still hasn't taken in what you said and other times he is at a loss to know what you said in the first place. Sometimes you can actually see him zone out, other times he does a good facsimile of listening.

He does struggle with eye contact as well, he finds in nigh on impossible to look you in the eye when you are speaking to him and if you get down to his level and try to make contact he is actively trying everything in his power to look anywhere and everywhere other than at you. If you say 'ds look at me' he says 'I am looking at you' but he isn't. He seems to find eye contact physically uncomfortable and you can see his body tensing up.

He has some sensory issues. He hates wearing jeans as he can only tolerate 'soft waistbands', he can't stand the texture of certain foods, he hates holding hands unless it can be done a certain way which he is comfortable and he is highly oversensitive to smells and often smells things strongly long before other people or when other can barely notice them at all.

He is a lovely, bright, funny boy who got level 3s in his SATs for everything except listening and communication, yet we are really struggling to get him to remember simple things like bringing homework home and handing it back in at the moment, thread here despite putting all sorts of strategies in place to try and help him and quite frankly I don't know where to turn for help and am at getting to the end of my tether trying to cope with this alone.

So there you have it, a thesis on my beautiful, yet unusual little boy. Heartfelt thanks to anyone that made it this far.

Anyone got any thoughts? Where do we go from here?

OP posts:
moosemama · 20/10/2009 14:10

Thank you all again for your replies and for sharing your own experiences with me. WedgiesMum your poor boy, and poor you. I can't imagine how you (or he) must've been feeling let alone managed to cope and move forwards.

I agree with you all and really believe that we need a professional opinion now. Dh and I had a long long talk last night and it isn't that he is in denial about ds or that he feels it reflects on him or his family history he just thinks that ds is ds and we should accept him for who and how he is. I talked him through ds's future as I see it with going through junior and senior school and eventually having to go out into society and how I feel that if he doesn't get some professional help now he is going to struggle or worse in the coming years. Dh just kept saying "but what exactly will they do to help him - what can they do?" I tried to tell him that there is a lot of help and support out there, but he feels that as for the most part ds manages to conform and fit in there wouldn't be much they could do to help. I pointed out that he couldn't possibly know that as he has no clue what is on offer in the first place and he turned that back on me and said I couldn't know that they would be able to help him.

Its exasperating to say the least and quite unlike dh who is usually the loveliest guy who has a really strong set of morals and ethics and cares deeply about people.

He did talk a little about why he is so anti and it boils down to him being really frightened that ds will be targeted by bullies if any of the other kids found out about him having a dx. He feels that we could end up seriously regretting having him assessed if that happens. I pointed out that if he really struggles to cope with life and school and we haven't done anything to prevent that from happening we would end up feeling just as bad and we won't know even know if he would/could get a dx unless we speak to a professional. I said we owe it to ds to at least find out what our/his options are and if we didn't have to take it any further unless we felt it would be beneficial.

By the end of the conversation he had sort of come round to my way of thinking and did say that maybe it would be ok to sound the gp out in the first instance, but he was obviously still not convinced and it was pretty non-committal. I think we still have a lot of talking to do, but am a bit more hopeful now that we might at least approach the gp with some questions.

OP posts:
moosemama · 20/10/2009 14:13

Thanks Troutpout, crossposted, in the time it took to type my mini essay.

What sort of help does your ds get, if you don't mind me asking? I'm kind of thinking that if I can tell dh about some of the types of help that might be available to ds, I will be more likely to persuade him to go ahead.

OP posts:
troutpout · 20/10/2009 14:50

Ds has funding at level 2c and gets 15 hours of support in the classroom. He is 12 and in year 8 of secondary school.
One of his main problem areas is organisation. He has someone (a TA) who 'sets him up for the day' in form times,checks his equipment/books (it's all colour coded) ,makes sure he knows what he is doing/where he is going.She also works out strategies that might improve his organisation ( Lol ...She is trying something with wristbands atm and not having much success -he just loses the wristbands as well!! ). Poor woman ! for the first time i have someone who really feels my pain. She forms the main home/school communication link.
He does not need 1 to 1 in lessons but his 15 hours are sort of shared out so that there is support available in most of his lessons. There are other Teaching Assistants who write his homework in his planner or break down tasks into an easier format or provide visual materials for him. He has a TA who works more closely with him in problem areas in school where he struggles ( PSHE,drama,PE,English)and then he just has TAs who are around for other people but will advise the teacher on his behalf and keep and eye on him in other areas where he is doing well (maths,science,history...errm anything factual actually ).
They have also run a social skills group at school.
There are other things too..lots of little things that they do and he has access to because of his dx and funding. (hall passes,safe quiet areas etc etc.
But most of all...is it's value as a signpost. The thing that makes a teacher/anyone stop and think and then act before just ploughing in with him.
He would not have coped at secondary school without it.
Out of school he attended a 'transition to high school' group run by cahms and he also attends a social skills group run by crossroads.

moosemama · 20/10/2009 16:52

Thank you for explaining all that to me. Its both interesting and useful to know the sort of support he might be able to access should he get a dx. (Its also useful as leverage for me to use in my discussions with dh.)

OP posts:
catkinq · 20/10/2009 18:55

I think that children with ASD are far more likely to be bullied if not dxed. Children today have it drummed into them that you do not bully people if they are differnt BUT there also seems to be an idea that you need a label to be allowed to be different and, of course, human nature has not changed so children (like many adults) do still have a tendancy to dislike difference. This seems to result in a situation where children are actually very tolerant of anyone who has a label asying "I'm different" but who are just as untolerant as ever of children without this "allowed to be different label" so a child is unlikely to be bullied because he has a dx, and a dx may protect him from being bullied but being different without a label is just as hard as it has always been.

troutpout · 20/10/2009 20:39

That's exactly it Catking . I see it as of protection from bullying if i'm honest....(and not just from the kids either!)

moosemama · 20/10/2009 20:48

I agree it would help protect from the kind of 'bullying' that some (minority) teachers are prone to, but am not so sure that it would protect him from other children.

In my experience children can be very cruel and bullies in particular are constantly on the look out for any chink in someone's armour, let alone an obvious label that then can sink their teeth into.

I suppose its just a sad fact of life really and the reality is that at some point, he will most likely have to face bullying (again) whether or not he gets a dx.

OP posts:
Goblinchild · 20/10/2009 21:07

My lad doesn't have to go out into the playground, so spends his breaks in the support centre which suits him fine. Reasonable adjustment for his AS means that groups and partners are selected carefully, he has participated in social communication group workshops and benefited.
Teachers are very Aspie-aware at his school, so don't get instantly cross when he says something that would appear cheeky or stupid from an intelligent NT child.They work out what the reason behind the question or response is and act appropriately. he's been given extra time to complete tasks, and prompt sheets to keep him on track.
The benefits of a dx for him have been truly immeasurable.
He's hard to bully. Firstly, he doesn't care about other's reactions and feelings except on a superficial learned level.
Secondly, when under attack and stressed...well, think The Incredible Hulk with PMT and no off switch. I've never known him bullied as no one risks it twice.

VerySpookyLennipillar · 20/10/2009 21:13

Moose - there is a legal leverage with bullying if he had an identified SEN. The school has a legal duty to protect him under the disability discrimination act. Reality obviously means that any child can be bullied, but ime children identified with SEN are more prudently protected.

oliandjoesmum · 20/10/2009 21:33

You have MY child, although mine comes with the explosive temper of goblinchilds son . He was diagnosed with aspergers this year (he is 8) and has a statement of SEN which allows him a full time 1-1 and access to a resourced provision to help him. He too got all 3s at KS1 SATS, but academically he started to slip in Year 3 because nobody understood how to teach him. In the new school he is now at the top of a year 5 class (isn't yet 9) and is sooo happy, it fills me with horror to remember the suicidal son I had just 10 months ago. My DH cried with shock when we got the diagnosis, I was SURE this was the problem since he was 3. It is very hard for men, they see their sons wanting to do the things they did, and eldest just isn't interested. I can't tell you what to do, but it is the best thing I could have done for my DS

moosemama · 20/10/2009 22:20

Ds does have the rage, but it doesn't seem to stop him from being bullied and as I said before, he has suffered some truly horrible attacks in his school life, including being surrounded by a circle of older boys who punched him to the floor and then all kicked him while he was curled up in a ball. It was only when the other children from his class pulled them off that it stopped and the teachers on playground duty didn't even notice. The school did deal with it effectively, but I was upset and horrified that they failed to protect him in the first place. He was in reception at the time.

Unfortunately, I think his work is already slipping now he is in year 3. His teacher (or rather supply teacher) seems oblivious to him and hadn't even noticed his homework has only been handed in once this term.

I went to speak to his teacher after school today about him not remembering to bring home and hand in homework and said we needed to talk properly sometime about setting-up some sort of system to help him, because he is really struggling and its not that he's lazy, he honestly 'can't' do it. She just nodded and looked at me as if I had two heads or something and then turned to talk to another parent.

In addition to that, it appears that he has had a set to with his maths teacher (who is the strictest teacher in the school) today. Apparently, he did really badly at something which she then refused to explain to his because 'he obviously wasn't listening when he should have been'. He has told me before that she has refused to explain things to him because 'he should know it' and this is particularly difficult for him because he loves maths and is generally really good at it.

There's no doubt in my mind that we have to address this with the school NOW, but I haven't had time to talk to dh at all today and don't really know who to speak to at the school as his teacher has been off sick since the start of week three and the supply teacher doesn't seem interested.

OP posts:
troutpout · 21/10/2009 08:11

This is the sort of thing i wanted him protected from when he moved to secondary Mooose.
Ds says the wrong thing like your boy too...and i knew it would get him into trouble when he moved to secondary school.
He isn't bullied .Like goblins boy, it would be water off a ducks back anyway... but he was singled out before the dx by the odd teacher (and so therefore the pupils too) with lots of little labels. He was labelled 'lazy',rude','weird','dreamy' ,'stupid','strange' and also 'boy genius' .
Once he got the proper 'label' thre was no longer a problem with teachers. Pupils have been ok too. They realise he has a 'condition' of some sort i'm sure.He is well liked..(mainly because he hasn't got a bad bone in his body) and has a group of loyal 'friends'
He's doing well > and has taken off accademically.

moosemama · 21/10/2009 10:22

Thanks troutpout.

Dh and I were up till gone one this morning talking about ds1 and I have made a bit of progress in that he has agreed we should at least arrange a meeting with the SENCO at the school to see if there's anything practical we and the school can be doing to help him cope.

He also agreed that if after seeing the SENCO the school don't seem to be able to help or the SENCO feels he needs greater support than they can offer, we should approach the GP at that point.

I read our LEA guidelines on assessment and statementing last night as well. It seems like such a huge complicated processes littered with deadlines etc. Quite a scary prospect, but then I would climb a mountain covered in shattered glass and rusty nails to help my little boy.

I did get the impression though that going via the GP and referral to a dev paed (if they will refer that is) can bypass some of the paper pushing and bureaucracy, or am I missing something?

OP posts:
debs40 · 21/10/2009 11:34

Hi Moosemama

You have my sympathy as we are in a similar situation with DS who is nearly 7. Many of the traits and issues you mention are familiar to me. My DS also has issues with taste, smells, touch and problems with routine. He also has low muscle tone and hypermobility which are commonly linked to disorders like dyspraxia and AS.

The turning point for me, in terms of asking for help, was the level of distress I was witnessing of every day little things like trying to get him to wear a different pair of socks or getting him ready for school.

Unfortunately, we are still a very long way from getting that help. We were referred by our GP in January and have had several 'gateway' appointments with CAMHS and the consultant paediatrician but we have not yet had a full assessment. DS has also been referred for OT and SALT.

Making the decision to look into this further is a personal one, but I have to say that I was worried both my the present difficulties DS faces and the ones he is likely to face in the future as the demands of age increase.

It can be a difficult and lengthy process. If the school hasn't asked for assessment, then it may be that they will know little about the issues you raise and they will not always understand what you are saying.

But I think if you feel that your child is likely to be impeded in some way by his problems, then there is little choice as formal assessment is the way to go for getting help.

moosemama · 21/10/2009 12:19

Thank you for your reply debs40.

His y2 teacher did raise the issue with us twice, but then backed off when we tried to follow it up. Thinking back now, I think that was because she knew if she spun it out until the end of the summer term he would become a junior rather than an infants problem (her handling of it was, er.. interesting, especially as she was the head of ks1) .

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/10/2009 14:52

Hi

re your comment:-

I did get the impression though that going via the GP and referral to a dev paed (if they will refer that is) can bypass some of the paper pushing and bureaucracy, or am I missing something?

Yes, that'll be a quicker route.

Woudl be interested to see if SENCO utters the word "statement" to you and what her reaction is to such a thing. I would put it to her that you feel your DS needs a Statement.

If you go down the Statement route (and I would urge you to do so) apply in person for this. Do NOT let the school do it - they cannot appeal in the event the LEA say no but you can. Also if you personally apply you know its been done then, some schools can sit on such apps for ages without doing anything.

A couple of the other children in my son's class know he has some learning difficulties but they have accepted him fully. Its not so much the children but the adults that can cause problems. In my experience no dx or any sort means more bullying/less understanding/less support shown in school.

WedgiesMum · 21/10/2009 22:38

Meant to get back to this thread yesterday evening but events conspired against me. Sorry!

I do want to add that things can definitely improve with appropriate help. DS is at a lovely new school who are FANTASTIC with him. We looked very carefully for the right place - one experienced with SEN children, autism and behaviour difficulties. DS has 18 hours of 1 to 1 support a week (Which is loads I know but he has really needed it after having 6 years at school with nothing). He has support in lessons to help him process instructions and information and to keep him on task, also his TA and teacher can spot now where he is just not getting it and intervene before any arguments occur. He also has some individual counselling time at school to help him let his feelings out, does some work with his TA on managing feelings and anger and does some social skills groups with classmates. At lunchtimes he is allowed to eat in a quieter area with one or two friends and play on the computers and he doesn't have to go out if he doesn't want to. This helps him process all the morning stuff and be refreshed for the afternoon. It means he has time where he doesn't have to be social if he doesn't want so he can recharge his coping batteries IYSWIM.

You would not know him from the boy he was last year. He is happy at school, achieving excellently in his work and best of all has understanding friends who make him feel special and step in (without any prompting or asking) if they feel things are getting stressful for him and either 'protect' him or fetch an appropriate adult.

This is entirely down to the school's approach and delivery of his statement. They are marvellous and despite not being seen as a 'good' school academically they nurture and develop the children to achieve their own personal best. DS is currently achieving Level 5 standard work and is accessing an advanced curriculum because they encourage him to.

He was previously bullied at his old, well regarded, school. Partly due to their atitude of not working with his differences but at the new school he is popular and his self esteem has grown so that he is not a target any more.

I really wish you all the very best of luck on your journey with your DS and hope that you get the support he needs. A dx does not change the child you have, they are still the same lovable person they always were, but it does help you towards getting them the support they need to gain the skills to help them cope later in life.

moosemama · 22/10/2009 09:44

Thank you for your lovely post WedgiesMum.

I think we are almost there now. Dh is almost on board and as soon as I am over this horrible flu bug, I will be arranging the meeting with the SENCO at the school in the, with a view to visiting the GP as well in the near future (as soon as I can finally get dh on board).

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page