Any solutions to this problem please

[claw3]

Ds 5.5 is claiming that other children are hitting him, being horrible, not wanting to play with him etc, etc and he is extremely unhappy about going to school.

He wont tell a teacher or if he does he is 'challenged' ie where, when, who, what, why etc he then gets extremely confused.

The school are saying if he cant tell them where, when,who etc, there is little they can do.

He has been given cards ie a help card, but then he still has to explain, who, when, etc so he is not using it.

I have a meeting with the school to discuss how he is getting on next week.

Any suggestions? Similar experiences?

It all sounds good on paper, but then a lot of places do.
Just keep a close eye on everything that happens (all incidents, conversations, phone calls and so on) and trust your instincts.

Good luck and keep posting to let usknow how you are getting on.

XX

MD - Sorry yes, ds dad is around and is quite involved in bed time, bath time, reading etc. He did take ds to the unsuccessful martial arts classes, in fact it was his idea (he is a black belt)

BFP - God, shoe shaped bruises that is terrible.

I will wait and see what transpires from the SENCO meeting on Weds and the TAMHS meeting on Thurs.

Im finding it hard to believe that school are not seeing what is wrong with their approach ie notes in home/school book 'X reported to me that he had been hit, when 'challenged' said he was not! What is the point of the cards, if they are going to 'challenge' him if he tries to report anything.

Another was 'refused to accept that he got his math work RIGHT!' surely a sign of low self esteem.

Quite

Thanks Moondog, my instinct is to keep him off school and wrap him in cotton wool, but im trying to be realistic and practical

It's so hard. I know, I really do.

When challnged?!

I just did a very good impression of ds1's low growl there on reading that, it was warranted.

BFP - His home/school liaison 'book' is the back of a smiley chart piece of paper, I also noted it was written in pencil . He also gets the choose of a smiley face, straight mouth or sad face for each lesson. I noticed a few sad faces had been rubbed out and replaced with straight mouths. Apparently the teacher draws in the face for him!

I commented back 'challenged?' on Thursday and it hasnt been in his book bag since!

Alarm bells ringing more and more loudly.....

Claw3 I am sorry you are still having these problems. It is bad enough having to deal with them without having to battle the school too. I'm just about to get a book started too but it sometimes feels like the teacher thinks she's doing us a favour by giving us a home/school book. Like wow, it's so great we need a special book to help my nearly 7 year old communicate.

It really shouldn't be so hard.

Just took ds to school, while waiting for the bell to ring to line up, ds approaches a boy in his class and says 'good morning', boy ignores him.

He then goes over to another boy in his class who is sitting there with a toy and says 'wow, great toy, where did you get it', boy ignores him.

He then goes over to a girl in his glass who is swinging around on some play ground equipment and says 'i can do that', she says 'go away'

Ds then attempts to run out of the school gates, i stop him and he hides behind toilet block and says 'see no one likes me'. I manage to persuade him to go into school (by now we are late) by saying he can talk to his mentor (she does the late door)

I take him in and he says to her 'i dont want to come to school, no one likes me'. She says 'you were ok on Friday, werent you?' ds nods. She then says you have only just got to school and you werent here yesterday so how can you say no one likes you?' ds goes quiet and just stands there.

I explain what has just happened. She says 'its probably because you werent in school yesterday'.

How do i get through to these people?

apologises for typos!

Morning Debs40, havent seen you post for a bit, hope you are ok?

I often find how to handle the school, far more complicated than how to handle ds!

How are things with the school and your ds?

I have just received a list of schools with ASD units attached which i will make enquiries about.

Oh dear is anyone around, looked in ds's book bag and found a note in his home/school 'book' (scrap of paper)

States that ds was confronted by another child about picking up a bit of tissue he had thrown on the floor and run to a teacher with the other boy chasing him, the teacher told him to pick it up which he did, and he then tried to use his permission to go inside card. She then questioned him about why what had happened. He told her he had been pushed, she said that she had been watching him and that he hadnt and told him he was lying and he was sent to the Head Teacher.

Sounds to me that he was overwhelmed by being confronted and just wanted to get away from the situation? What do you think?

bump.

Maybe this is a case where you need a professional to "translate" his behaviour for them.

Or a new school.

Morning Linglette - Thanks for replying, im at my wits end!

OT came with me to the meeting about 2 weeks ago and explained that he can misinterpret being brushed against, unexpected touch light touch or even the anticipation of being touched as painful. She also told them whether he was being hit or not, he FELT he was.

At the meeting i agreed that ds can most definitely misinterpret, but that he had not misinterpreted being strangled as the school witnessed this, both myself and the school also witnessed him being swung around and thrown to the floor (rough play by the school standards).

I think there is probably a combination of being hit and misinterpretation, as the truth is usually somewhere in between.

We all agreed that ds FELT he was being hit and the cards were introduced to help him communicate when he felt like this. I thought we had agreed that if ds felt any kind of distress or overwhelmed whether he was right or wrong to feel that way, he could show his card and would be able to go and see his mentor to talk to her about it in a quiet place for reassurance and guidance.

Instead he used his card, was accused of lying by his class teacher who was also at the meeting and sent to the Head Teacher for a telling off by the sounds of it

seems to me that if you discipline a child for lying you must be very sure that they understand what a lie is. A child with language problems might surely have great difficulties with that?

I noted that in the scenario you described, the teachers thrust a "why?" question at your DS. Even a neurotypical child would tend to say "I don't know" in response to this - indeed, even an adult - and surely he might just have been flailing around for something that represents an answer?

These "who what why" challenges are effectively linguistic cross-examinations. We lawyers use these types of questions in cross-examination precisely because we know they are very very hard to answer on any terms except those posed by the questioner.

See what moondog and others say but I hope we can help you get the school to "get it". I suspect they are presupposing the communication skills that they are supposed to be helping him to acquire.

You've got to get to the bottom of this and then articulate it.

Claw 3 how distressing this all is. I agree with linglette. This type of open questioning is very difficult to deal with when a child has problems explaining themsleves and punishing him, without understanding the communication issues he faces, won't help.

I can't remember sorry but at what stage have you got with SALT or help on the social communication side? I know you said he was being referred to a unit does he get any help in the meantime.

I think that professionals in the field don't always understand these things so it can be difficult for teachers who generally have no training at all.

I am going through a similar process as you know and have been dismayed at the lack of understanding everywhere. I presented the SALT we saw with a few examples of DS's obvious inability to communicate in some situations and she asked 'why does he do that'. I was kind of hoping she'd have an answer to that!

The touching stuff I can understand as DS can easily misinterpret contact he thinks is deliberate. He can also completely misunderstand tone of voice and often thinks people are angry or shouting at him when they're not.

I think you have done really well battling this head on and it looks like you have made some progress. It is so draining though isn't it? I have a meeting with class teachers and SENCO in November which has taken me weeks to set up. Thanks for asking

Ds gets very distressed when being chased, unexpected touch and being touched from behind is his worse nightmare. I have explained this to the school before this incident in writing and since.

The card he used gives him permission to go inside at playtime to see his mentor, so i assume he was already distressed to be using the card, probably due to being confronted by the other boy (he hates confrontation) and then chased (albeit the boy didnt mean any harm) his worse nightmare.

Then to be asked the 'wh's' why, when, what, where, who would have totally confused him. He may well have pushed, brushed against etc earlier, the day before, last week, who knows!

The school now he is easily confused, has trouble recalling events, gets names confused.

I am furious that he used his card for its intended purpose and was punished. If he wasnt pushed but felt like he was, he should have been given some guidance and the boys intentions explained to him.

Getting to the bottom of anything with ds, is very difficult and knowing this i expected a bit more patience and understanding from the school.

I wrote them a stinking comment back

Hey Debs40

It seems to be one thing after another, you think you have got through to them, then up pops something else, its never ending!

School SALT assessed him last month, after going missing for over a year and has referred to senior SALT for assessment appointment in November at school. All we ever have is referrals and no action.

I can totally understand teachers not having knowledge of every special need, but they seem to be unable to take it on board even after its been explained. Mind you my GP has medical knowledge and has no understanding 'dont worry he will grow out of it'!

Oh yes, you dont even have to be angry or shout at ds for him to get upset. The slightest sign of disapproval, even if its not directed at him and he takes it very personally.

Everything always takes so long to set up, doesnt it. I have a meeting with SENCO this afternoon, which will be wasted on debated whether he is lying or misinterpreting and being defensive.

I also invited a member of staff to accompany me to the meeting at school with TAMHS tomorrow, so we can establish the best way to handle ds's behaviour, will be interesting to see if they take me up on that offer.

Have you tried BIBIC? I've just lined up an assessment appointment in December. You Can ring and talk to one of their therapists (you will have to book an appointment for this) and they seem very thorough.

They don't diagnose but offer practical strategies to help on every level as the child is assessed by a multi-disciplinary team.

They are a charity and only charge a £50 registration fee for the whole thing.

I'm hoping it will help with school!!!

You saying that has reminded me, im sure that someone else recommended BIBIC to me on here and i checked out their website and requested a info package from them, which i didnt get!

I will have a google and find out the number and give them a ring. Thanks Deb.

Anything is worth a try, things will only get better, i keep telling myself